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My interview about NAR with ex-New Ager Doreen Virtue

Yesterday, I was interviewed about the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) by two ex-New Agers, Melissa Dougherty and Doreen Virtue. Doreen Virtue was a well-known New Age author before converting to Christianity two years ago. Now she has a ministry warning people about the dangers of New Age beliefs. She has a large following, including many New Agers and former New Agers.

On her webcast, yesterday, we discussed NAR and how specific NAR practices, such as exercises designed to “activate” the miraculous gift of prophecy, have more in common with New Age practices than the miraculous gifts of the Holy Spirit found in Scripture. We also discussed the major role Bethel Church in Redding, California, has played in promoting these New Age-type activation exercises. And we talked about the need for spiritual discernment, including the importance of having a full understanding of the Bible, not just a superficial understanding, and how to get that understanding. The webcast has already received over 3,000 views in less than 24 hours. Check out the webcast on YouTube.


Holly Pivec is the co-author of A New Apostolic Reformation?: A Biblical Response to a Worldwide Movement and God’s Super-Apostles: Encountering the Worldwide Prophets and Apostles Movement. She has a master’s degree in Christian apologetics from Biola University.

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9 Responses to “My interview about NAR with ex-New Ager Doreen Virtue”

  1. R. R. Says:

    Fantastic. Thank you .

  2. Karen Ortwein Says:

    These NAR teachings, to my personal knowledge, have been going on since the early 1970s. My husband and I were starting out in ministry at that time and seeing error cropping up in all sorts of forms.It has seemed to me that it was about power and money–power to get your money! I have friends whose marriages fell apart over the giving money to get “stuff”, one friend committed suicide because he didn’t think he could get all his evil spirits out (another errant teaching that was within the early NAR). We attended a meeting in which one speaker stood up calling folks to the front and she would teach them to speak in tongues!! She told them to say “ba ba” as fast as they could and soon they’d be talking in tongues. Yes it actually happened and we walked out. I see so much new age in the church there’s no place to go anymore. Keep up the good work. I may not 100% agree with you, but you are really trying to fight delusion and error.

  3. Kevin Says:

    Holly, I am strongly opposed to the teachings of the NAR, the violent eschatology of Mike Bickle, et al. So I thank you for your excellent ministry!

    However, regarding judging prophecies, not all prophecies are predictive. Prophecy (speaking from God) is to be for “strengthening, encouragement, and comfort” (1 Cor. 14:3).

    As to “prophets” under the New Covenant, and the gift of prophecy, it is not an all-or-nothing (100% accuracy or else!) proposition. I believe there is indeed room for error and growth. As we read in 1 Corinthians:

    “And let two or three prophets speak, and let the others judge [discern, decide].” 1 Cor. 14:29.

    In the same vein, the (all too uncommon) gift of discerning of spirits listed in 1 Cor. 12:10, is not just to quickly protect the local brethren from visiting wolves, but also from the carnality of immature believers growing in spiritual gifts. When a prophetic utterance is offered, the question should be, “Is this word from God, the flesh, or the devil? Or some combination?”

    Let me add that Christian leaders should not exercise authority outside their local bodies. But the temptation to do so feeds the ecumenical movement of ‘unity at the expense of truth.’ (Of course, the post-millennial, dominionist, Antichrist agenda of the Latter Rain movement REQUIRES this extra-local control.)

  4. Diane Woerner Says:

    Kevin, those are such good points. Counterfeits necessarily emulate something real, and the closer they come the more powerful they are.

    It’s interesting that our culture is so anti-authority and anti-patriarchy, and yet we are designed to function best under leadership that cares for and protects us. This appears to have created a vacuum which draws people to anyone who represents themselves as God’s appointed leader. Acts 20:30 is very much alive in our day.

  5. Terry Says:

    Holly, what groups of contemporary Christian music do you think are good ones? I’d like to avoid the Hollsong/ Bethel music, thank you

  6. Holly Says:

    Terry, thanks for your great question. Music isn’t my strong suit. But I can tell you that we, as Christians, need to weigh all song lyrics according to the teachings of Scripture. There is no shortcut to this. A life of reading Scripture broadly (both the Old and New Testament), often, and deeply (in context and with the help of a good study Bible) can help us grow in this.

  7. Terry Says:

    Have you heard of Carolyn Hamlett and her story of Why she left Bride Ministries? Seems like the New Age and Luciferian doctrines are entering into Christian churches. (See Emerging church movement) People need to be aware of this in order for it not to enter their churches. But it seems to be entering everywhere such as schools , media, bookstores etc
    Your interview was very good thank you for your work!

  8. Marilyn GS Says:

    Not a comment. I just haven’t been receiving your new posts so resubmitting my email. I, and a number of my friends, follow you, Holly. ☺

  9. Holly Says:


    I added you back to the subscription list. I’m not sure why you haven’t received my new posts. Thanks for your encouraging words.

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