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Listen to my new interview on the NAR with Alisa Childers

February 17th, 2018 | 7 Comments | Posted in Apologetics, Michael Brown

Take a listen to Alisa Childers’ latest podcast, with me, “The New Apostolic Reformation: What It Is and Why We Should Care.”

Alisa’s personal story is inspiring. She’s a lifelong Christian and former CCM recording artist–a member of ZOEgirl–who went through a time of profound doubt about her faith in her mid-30s. She investigated her faith intellectually, developed a well-reasoned and robust faith, and now has an apologetics ministry dedicated to helping others find answers to their tough questions.

I really enjoyed being interviewed by Alisa. She asks great questions. We covered many topics including my response to radio host Michael Brown’s defense of NAR leaders and his claims that the New Apostolic Reformation isn’t the big, concerning movement that critics, like myself, say it is. Here’s the podcast description from Alisa’s website.

There is a movement within Christendom called the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR). Some Christians believe it’s a true work of God, others are skeptical…others claim it doesn’t exist at all!  My guest, Holly Pivec has written two books on the NAR, and talks with me  about her concerns regarding the teachings and practices of this growing movement.

Listen to the podcast here.


Holly Pivec is the co-author of A New Apostolic Reformation?: A Biblical Response to a Worldwide Movement and God’s Super-Apostles: Encountering the Worldwide Prophets and Apostles Movement. She has a master’s degree in Christian apologetics from Biola University.

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7 Responses to “Listen to my new interview on the NAR with Alisa Childers”

  1. Christian K Reyes Says:

    Are there present day Apostles?
    It’s frustrating for me to permanently land on either side of the debate.
    The arguments for the cessation of the Apostolic office has its strengths.
    But so do the arguments for its continuation.

    If present day Apostleship solely concerns Church governorship, then it simply is another ecclesiastical model along side Congregationalism, Presbyterianism and Episcopalism. This is fine by me. Unfortunately, they all come with their own set of abuse and baggage.

    But if it expands its purview to matters of revelation then things get sticky. I think you can hold both progressive revelation and the canon of scripture together. Provided that the Canon always functions as a ‘norma normans’ whereas all purported revelation is deemed ‘norma normata’. Much in the way a carpenter holds a measuring tape in one hand and a piece of lumber in another. If present day apostles do not subject their ‘revelation’ to this rule than let them be anathema.

  2. Anne Marie Helmsworth Says:

    Error is like leaven, of which we read, “A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.” Truth mixed with error is equivalent to all error, except that it is more innocent looking and, therefore, more dangerous. God hates such a mixture! Any error, or any truth-and-error mixture, calls for definite exposure and repudiation. To condone such is to be unfaithful to God and His Word and treacherous to imperiled souls for whom Chris died.

    Henry Ironside

  3. Maggie Says:

    Reply to Christian K. Reyes–
    You may be interested in checking out YT videos by Chris Rosebrough of Fighting for the Faith, where he tests against Scripture what is taught or being done in the NAR. The series of videos is called “You Don’t Have To Be a Cessationist.”

  4. AriseMyLove Says:

    Dear Holly:

    I just listened to this interview and please understand, that you going to these NAR meetings “undercover” is not a good idea.

    You are dealing not with just an errant doctrine, but spiritual counterfeits, i.e. familiar spirits and demons.

    Please ask the Lord to show you what is going on, and then renounce any agreement with these demons (agreement or gaining false consent is how these demons work) or doctrines of demons in a quest to do “undercover” work on these movements.

    The problem evangelicals have is that you do not understand that false prophecy and false teaching is the DOORWAY for the supernatural.

    This is why Christ tells us in Revelation “do not tolerate that woman Jezebel”… to “tolerate” means to come into agreement, however passive.

    The other problem with “going undercover” is that you are yourself lying about what you are doing there, which is a sin, sorry to say. Unless you were honest and up front with these NAR people as to who you are and your real purpose there.

    Sin also opens us up to the demonic You need to recognize these people are acting what is, in my opinion, the same spirit that God sent to Ahab, and probably the “great Delusion” itself.

    Unless you recognize that this is actually a supernatural counterfeit which is probably the antiChrist movement itself, (think about that… there is no “revival” in the NT for the end times, only “He will have to shorten the time for the sake of the elect”) — unless you see that this is actually a supernatural, demonic movement you really cannot fight it properly.

    Deconstructing the theology is great, and you have done a wonderful job, but then, you need to understand why it is called a “DOCTRINE OF DEMONS”…

    Lord bless and keep you, Holly.

    P.S. I once had a terrible dream about this movement. The gist of it was that the NAR believes in the supernatural but NOT the Gospel.

  5. Robert Says:

    Great interview and expose’ on the topic. Sad situation with Dr Brown, collaborator? Ok, that may be harsh but the deflection is hard to understand. The thread with establishing the kingdom is spooky, joining hands with the dominion theology – Do I see a harlot (Rev. 17) in the background?

  6. Theresa Says:

    Great interview, Holly! In my opinion and experience, I would say that the NAR is the highest form of deception that has infiltrated the Church because it is so close, in SOME ways, to the order that was started in the early Church.

    For example, notably, but not only, there is to be an order of leadership hierarchy in churches, based on spiritual maturity, and that true spiritual gifts of the HOLY Spirit, such as speaking in tongues, prophecy (aligned with true doctrine), which Paul exhorted believers to seek to obtain, are also alive and well.

    But the Word also warns us, in the end there will be false signs and lying wonders, and false doctrine, and wolves who’s sole intention is to deceive the flock. Partial truth is no truth.

    In the end, the most important standard of assessment is true doctrine. When applied to the Word, rightly divided, it’s actually pretty easy to discern how the NAR movement is a total, and dangerous deception.

    But of course, we have to be willing to actually learn to rightly divide the Word by spending time IN the Word, and to come under true Godly Bible discipleship.

    There are doctrinally sound fellowships out there, but in my experience, they are largely “off the radar,” especially as we continue to move full speed ahead into the unfoldment of prophetic end times we are now seeing. In my experience and understanding of Bible prophecy, as a believer and follower of Jesus Christ, God’s mandate is to bring His sheep to salvation, and not to take over 7 mountains or any other sphere of worldly culture, but according to the Word, it is to destroy them. How deeply deceived much of the church is.

  7. Lance Wonders Says:

    Saying, dogmatically, that “partial truth is no truth” is itself a lie, an exaggeration, a deliberate deception. Paul clearly tells us in I Corinthians 13 that, at present, we see “as in a mirror dimly”, and will only later on see “face to face” when perfection comes at Christ’s return. Scripture is totally inspired, but our interpretations of Scriptures — and bashings of others based on those interpretations — are not. Holly, this is YOUR blog, not Theresa Miller’s! Please don’t let her keep on dominating your website, as if she is God’s chosen “expert” on everything and everyone. Otherwise, your own balance and fairness and ongoing credibility are lost in the “snow” of one whose heart is not as focused on righteous criticism as is your own (if one can judge from what keeps coming from her comments??)

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