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SBC president slated to speak at major NAR event tonight

Ronnie Floyd

Ronnie Floyd

I was disappointed to learn that the president of the Southern Baptist Convention, Ronnie Floyd, agreed to be a keynote speaker at the International House of Prayer’s annual youth conference in Kansas City, Missouri, which kicked off today. See Onething 2015. Floyd is scheduled to speak tonight, sharing a platform with IHOP founder, Mike Bickle.

Sadly, Floyd’s appearance at this event will be seen by many evangelicals as an endorsement of IHOP and Mikle Bickle– and they will be drawn into IHOP’s New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) teachings.

Floyd joins a growing list of mainstream evangelical leaders who have accepted invitations to speak at IHOP–one of the main distributors of the global NAR ideology. (The other is Bethel Church, in Redding, Calif.). Popular evangelical pastor and author Francis Chan is also scheduled to speak at the conference on Wednesday morning. This will be Chan’s second year speaking at IHOP.

Make no mistake: Floyd’s appearance at IHOP will be touted by Bickle and other NAR leaders to lend credibility to their movement of self-declared apostles and prophets–a movement that has brought destruction and division to the lives of countless individuals, families, and churches. And warning people about the dangers of this movement will have become more difficult. After all, if the Southern Baptists are OK with the NAR–a theologically conservative bunch–then what could be so bad about it it? (or so people will say).

To learn more about the harmful teachings and practices of the New Apostolic Reformation, see my two co-authored books on this topic: God’s Super-Apostles (a beginner’s introduction to the movement) and  A New Apostolic Reformation?: A Biblical Response to a Worldwide Movement (a deeper examination of NAR claims with detailed exposition of Scripture and careful reasoning).

 

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16 Responses to “SBC president slated to speak at major NAR event tonight”

  1. Friend in Christ Says:

    I’m just learning about NAR and their ideology as I was looking into Jonathan Welton.  Literally, I have spent much of the past 3 days doing online research and only stumbled upon IHOP and the One Thing 2015 Conference beginning today.  I was disappointed to find not only the SBC president, but also Francis Chan (and even more disappointed to hear this is Chan’s second year) listed as speakers.  I did watch some of Floyd’s exposition and was at least glad that he began by mentioning their theological differences (if that’s worth anything).

  2. HdG Says:

    I am not totally surprised that some high profile evangelical leaders are banding together with NAR in what they think is a helpful way. There seems to be a move toward “unity” with any group that calls itself christian. Local “Ministerial Alliances” are everywhere, looking for a worldwide “Great Awakening”. My question is; Are we seeing the beginning of a/the “Great Deception”?

  3. Lance Wonders Says:

    Mike Bickle is not part of Peter Wagner’s network or theology.  He does have some Latter Rain elements in his thinking and practice, but he is eclectic, and is also very open to classic Pentecostalism, Messianic Judaism, and even Fuller Seminary’s former NT theologian George Eldon Ladd.  He is a pre-millennialist, not a crypto-postmillennialist like Wagner et al.  Please do not paint all charismatics with the same brush!  Mike is evangelical in his utter commitment to Scripture as God’s Word: his openness to the “prophetic” was always based on Scripture — even your former (now deceased) colleague Robert Saucy saw that Rev. 11 indicated a temporary return of the prophetic in the last days — so let’s rejoice at the coming together of biblical theology and Spirit-led life in union with Jesus, and not wrongly divide where our common ground in Him is much, much greater than where the issues of eschatology somewhat intrude….  Blessings to your readership, and Merry Christmas/Happy New Year in the One Who alone keeps us faithful on His path.  LANCE WONDERS

  4. Kenny Lentz Says:

    Holly,

    Having read and shared your “A New Apostolic Reformation?” a deeper examination of NAR claims, I agree with your assessments in your book and with your concern about the appearance of evangelical leaders at IHOP functions.   One can only ask “What do these evangelical leaders think they are accomplishing?”

    Toward answering that question, I submit the links below to address this urgently pertinent question in another form.  You characterize the Southern Baptists as a “theologically conservative bunch.”  I understand that they are generally positioned as such, yet I submit the question, “Conservative of what, precisely?”

    The following links are authoritative historical essays by Baptists surveying the “devolution” of Baptist polity and Baptist theology in America since colonial times when the Baptist church was founded.  I suggest they shed considerable light on how a contemporary Southern Baptist Convention President could come to keynote a youth rally on a podium hosted by a leading NAR “Apostle.”

    http://www.baptistcenter.net/journals/JBTM_3-1_Spring_2005_10_From_Church_Competence_to_Soul_Competence.pdf

    http://graceonlinelibrary.org/church-history/baptists/the-rise-demise-of-calvinism-among-southern-baptists-by-tom-nettles/

    I am very appreciative of you and your colleague R. Douglas Geivett for the research and publication of your books on the NAR, and for your continuing efforts to enlighten the Church about false doctrines promoted within the ambit of “Christian” culture.

  5. Friend in Christ Says:

    I watched Francis Chan at One Thing 2015 today and was disappointed that he so firmly aligned himself with Mike Bickle and IHOP at the very start of his talk.  I also love Matt Mahr and Audrey Assad (few people know her, but I’ve loved her music for several years now).  Disappointed.

    I must say that I have been reading everything I can find about the NAR for the past few days (since I am on Christmas break) including unbiblical quotes from some of the self proclaimed apostles and prophets and I am deeply saddened.  And then I see people like Chan who are greatly respected by mainstream Christians outwardly supporting Bickle and IHOP and I get confused; this DESPITE reading and looking up for myself how these so called apostles twist Scripture.  Then, I begin to question if I don’t have faith like a child; or if I am putting God in a box for not getting swept up in the supernatural even though I do believe that God still can and does miracles, people can speak in tongues, etc.  If it is confusing for me, a Christian for over 30 years, then how much more for those young in their faith and seeking a deep “experience” with Christ.

    It leaves me with more questions.

  6. Arnold Smith Says:

    Holly,

    Thanks for the news. It is quite simple. We are not to associate with the unfruitful works of darkness but rather to expose them. We are also to “mark” these false teachers. We are truly in the Laodicean church age and that is an age where Jesus is speaking to the individual to open the door to Him. The corporate church is dead!

  7. Maggie Says:

    Sadly, Ronnie Floyd and Ravi Zacharias will be speakers at Synergize 2016 later this month, which event will also have NAR speakers.  

    Info from BereanResearch website:  http://bereanresearch.org/the-billion-souls-network-wants-churches-to-bring-back-the-king/

  8. Alex Says:

    I’m one of the victim sitting under the leadership where open prophecies are taught. We also adopted Chan’s multiply material. Weird as he is, the biblical discernment is at an all time low now.

    I am now liberated from the charismatics movement and encourage you to do so as well. There are much better teachers out there upholding the doctrine ever since the reformation.

    John Calvin, Martin Luther, Charles Spurgeon, Martyn Lloyd Jones, these line of faithful preachers.
    John MacArthur, RC Sproul, and the reformation….

    God bless you.

  9. Lance Wonders Says:

    Paul, under inspiration of the Holy Spirit, exhorted us that ALL teachers “belong to us” (I Cor. 3), so long as they genuinely belong to Christ Himself.  Yes, some “work” will end up being burned up as hay or straw because of its lack of proper, biblical substance; and the work of some others will redound to God’s glory, as made of gold or precious stones.  But if Apollos (who didn’t “get” Jesus’ true Messiahship at first, nor the work of the Holy Spirit within the New Covenant) was included in Paul’s listing of genuine teachers, then why are we creating “hate” lists of any kind today?  Peter Wagner and Mike Bickle and Rick Joyner have “issues” where they are “off the track” somewhat.  But we are not justified by our perfectly flawless orthodoxy (or else no one today would be saved!!!), but rather by our clinging to Christ Himself and His work as our Representative and Mediator and Head.  Luther and Calvin and Wesley — and even Spurgeon! — were not “always right” in their views, and were very controversial in their day.  But the good things they taught have remained, and out-shadowed their errors and stumblings.  Should the Lord tarry, the same will be said of many charismatics.  One third of all Christians worldwide are charismatics now, and about one quarter of all believers ever converted have been converted, in this last generation, by charismatics.  So let’s stop dividing the Body under the guise of “protecting” it, and maintain a healthy dialogue with Wagner, Bickle, Joyner et al. as BROTHERS IN CHRIST, and not keep repeating John MacArthur’s errors of over-stating what is “wrong” with them over and over again, but leave it in God’s own hands to judge them.  We can try to sift out some of their mistakes, yes: but then lets likewise sift out — with equal fervor — John  MacArthur’s errors as well!  One standard for all: for the measure (harsh or gracious) we use to measure others will be the measure by which the Father Himself will “measure” us as well.

  10. Stefanie Says:

    Well, Matt Maher is a Roman Catholic first and foremost. Bickel is aligning himself with Catholicism like Warren has. This event had Catholic priests giving sermons to approx 20K youth…so not only are they being led into deception by Bickel, but also being introduced to mysticism, Lectio Divina, and other heresies of the Roman Catholic Church. This goes BEYOND NAR teachings…this is APOSTASY. Praying for those that are being led down a path of accepting a false Christ by wolves….

  11. arnold smith Says:

    Lance,

    please read Galatians 1:6-9. It tells us that any who preach “another” gospel than the one which was taught by the apostles, let him be accursed. Jesus said in Luke 12:51 he didn’t come to bring peace but rather division. This is a good division, dividing the wheat from the tares. Tares will live among us in our church. Jesus had many things to say to the church in Revelation 2 and 3. Your premise about keeping unity at the cost of a pure gospel and a pure teaching about Jesus is wrong according to the scriptures. Jesus wants us to “mark” false teachers.

    I give you one example. If you read any of Rick Joyner’s books, which I have, you will see he elevates prophetic utterances above the written scripture. I have read it in black and white in his books. That goes against Peter’s warning in 2 Peter 1:16-21. All cults like the Mormons and Jehova Witness started out sounding Christian and still do but they preach “another Jesus and another gospel” and the charismatic movement has fallen into that as well because of it’s teachers. That is why i came out of that movewment, although I am not totally against it. It has lost it’s purity and the false teachings have become cultic and not tolerable.

    Please be a Berean and search these things out for yoursewlf. These charismatic teachers manipulate anyone from doing just that. Acts 17:11.

    Blessings to you

  12. Lance Wonders Says:

    Mike Bickle, Rick Joyner, Peter Wagner, and most of the other so-called New Apostolic Reformation folk —  only Wagner embraces that label, by the way, not Bickle or Joyner — accept that Jesus Christ is absolutely our only hope of salvation, through His finished work on the Cross, resurrection from the dead, intercession for us at the Father’s right hand, etc.  They all also believe in the full inspiration and truthfulness of the Scriptures.  They differ with traditional Evangelicalism — does THAT even really exist??? — in the areas of ecclesiology and eschatology, yes, but NOT in Theology Proper, Christology, or soteriology.  So they do not fall under Paul’s condemnations within the book of Galatians.  As you likely know, Evangelicals have held some ridiculous views at times in terms of double-predestination, myriad Dispensations, the gap theory (including pre-Adamites and demons-as-ex-first-humans-only-disembodied-now), etc.  That did not put them “outside the camp”, but rather pushed us into biblical debating about specific doctrines (which debating, of course, is still going on).  If we reject those who simply disagree with us, then where does it end?  The Gospel doesn’t depend upon whether a church calls its chief human coordinator a pastor, priest, apostle, or bishop, but rather upon whether Jesus Himself is exalted as our true Head and Savior.  If you actually do read these men, they do indeed agree with us on these essential matters.  That is what this Berean sees and affirms. I say this as a true ble Evangelical who has worked with charismatics for over 30 years, I speak as one who has seen the fruit from the inside, not just as an outside critic. These ARE our brothers and sisters, NOT satanically-inspired deceivers.  Bad exegetes at times, but sincere men and women of God (though with exceptions here and there, as always happens in any new movement). Thank you for this ongoing dialogue, hopefully it willl bring ever greater clarification, to the Lord’s own glory.

  13. arnold smith Says:

    Lance,

    It was said by Charles Spurgeon that discernment isn’t just determining right from wrong but determining “right from almost right”. Yes, all of the “Charismatic” preachers you’ve mentioned have a very sincere approach about Jesus, but so do the Jehova Witness and Mormons. The people of the charismatic movement are sincere people and most are truly saved, as I was one of them. A higher standard is placed upon teachers and it can’t be ignored with how they deal craftily with the scriptures. Again, you missed what I have said Rick Joyner has done with current day prophetic utterances as compared to written scripture (Bible)(Word of God). This is not some little difference. It is MAJOR! He is dealing craftily with God’s Word, and elevating man’s word above it. I am not making claims I read in the news. I’ve been personally involved with many of these ministries: reading their books, listening to their podcasts, and going to conferences they’ve been at. Any good Pastor (Shepherd) will point out the wolves. The reason it took me so long to get out of this movement is because of how closely it resembles sincere and true Christianity. I had to mature in my understanding of God’s Word. It is a personal thing to each individual believer to search out these matters. I do not condemn you for your defense of your position as I too did the same in the past.

    Blessings

  14. Lance Wonders Says:

    I totally agree with you and Spurgeon about discerning teachings — but a mistaken exegete or theologian is not, on that account, a false brother in Christ.  He is just a bad and unreliable teacher, and ought, then, to be ignored — yes, even directly rebuked! — in his areas of error.  I ignore C. I. Scofield when he claims that the Church will be in heaven during the Millennial Kingdom.  I ignore the Calvinist who defies Scripture and says Jesus died only for “the elect”, and not for the sins of the entire world (contra I John 2:2). And I reject the Immaculate Conception of Mary, though born-again evangelist Ralph Martin of Word of God Community in Ann Arbor Michigan upholds it. Therefore it is very wrong, as I understand the NT, to put people like Rick Joyner and Mike Bickle and Peter Wagner in the same category as Jehovah’s Witnesses or Mormons.  The last two are not Christianity, its leadership are false teachers and false prophets, and are not a part of the Body of Christ on earth.   But Rick and Mike and Peter are.  I know each of them from direct relationship, they are my brothers in Christ, however mistaken in some areas.  God will judge them, just as He will “sift” you and me and our sister Holly!  May He find not only an orthodox mind, for the most part(!), but also a grace-enabled heart within us, when He does.  The Enemy does not need any of US helping him do his accusing or dividing work.  Rather, the Holy Spirit “refines”, He does not cast out those whose hearts are fixed on Christ.

  15. Matthew Says:

    I know this is an old article, but did you catch Floyd is now the leader of the National Day of Prayer?

  16. Holly Says:

    Thanks for bringing this to my attention, Matthew.

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