The Changing of the Apostolic Guard: 13 Names to Watch

changing guardsI think we are witnessing a time of leadership transition in the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) movement. The first-generation NAR leaders–those who formulated the major teachings of the NAR movement–have begun stepping aside and a new generation of apostles and prophets have risen to take their places.

The first-generation leaders–and particularly apostle C. Peter Wagner and prophet Bill Hamon –developed much of the theological framework for the NAR movement, including teachings about the restored church offices of apostles and prophet and dominionism. But these first-generation leaders are aging–both Wagner and Hamon are in their 80s.  Thus, the torch is being passed to the next generation of NAR leaders.

These next-generation leaders–such as apostle Bill Johnson and NAR teacher Mike Bickle–are less focused on developing the broad theology of the movement as they are focused on running with and championing the theology that has already been developed.

I expect that the outcome of the efforts of these second-generation leaders will the mainstreaming of the NAR movement–something we already are seeing. In other words, these leaders will take teachings that, in previous years, showed up only in churches on the fringes of Christianity and introduce those teachings to more mainstream evangelical churches.

Evidence that they have already been successful doing this can be seen by the fact that Bill Johnson’s presentation at the Voice of the Apostles conference next month in Orlando, Florida, will be opened by highly popular Christian rock band Third Day. And Mike Bickle’s organization–the International House of Prayer in Kansas City, Missouri–has drawn some high-profile evangelical speakers to its conferences, such as Josh McDowell and the late Dallas Willard.

So, here is my list of 13 apostles, prophets and NAR teachers to keep your eyes on and the reasons I think they are influential. Some of them are part of the new generation of NAR leadership. Others have substantial overlap between the older and newer guards, but still are guiding the movement.

Bill Johnson headshotApostle Bill Johnson, author and senior co-pastor (with his wife, Beni) of Bethel Church in Redding, California. Johnson has convinced many evangelicals that all Christians should perform miracles–such as healing and prophesying–frequently and as part of their daily lives. Many churches have started their own School of Supernatural Ministry, patterned after Bethel School of Supernatural Ministry, which has grown to more than 1,500 full-time students.

 

Kris Vallotton headshotProphet Kris Vallotton, author and senior associate pastor of Bethel Church in Redding, California. Vallotton is Bill Johnson’s right-hand man and is the co-founder and senior overseer of Bethel School of Supernatural Ministry. Vallotton is attempting to mainstream the heterodox “Manifest Sons of God” teaching.

 

Teacher Mike Bickle, founder and director of the International House of Prayer (IHOP) in Kansas City, Missouri. Bickle has popularized NAR teachings on strategic-level spiritual warfare through IHOP’s 24/7 prayer movement, and he has popularized the NAR doctrine of dominionism through his teachings on the Book of Revelation.

 

misty edwardsMusician Misty Edwards,  a permanent member of the board leadership team at IHOP in Kansas City, Missouri, and executive producer of Forerunner Music. Edwards–whose “prophetic” music is developing a national following–oversees the 24/7 prayer room and all IHOP’s worship leaders, musicians and singers.

 

Lou Engle headshotProphet Lou Engle, co-founder of TheCall and member of the leadership team at IHOP. By organizing prayer and fasting rallies in stadiums across the United States, Engle has become a driving force for conservative political causes, such as laws opposing abortion and same-sex marriage.

 

Ché Ahn Headshot

Apostle Che Ahn, apostle of Harvest International Ministry (HIM) and senior pastor of Harvest Rock Church in Pasadena, California. Ahn’s apostolic network, HIM, claims oversight of more than 20,000 churches in over 50 nations. Ahn’s particular appeal is that he is broadly accepted as an apostle by many subgroups of the NAR, appearing at many conferences, including the upcoming Voice of the Apostles conference.

 

Dutch Sheets headshotTeacher Dutch Sheets, best-selling author and executive director of Christ for the Nations Institute. Sheets is politically active as a leader in the U.S. Religious Right movement, including having served as a national co-chair on Newt Gingrich’s Faith Leaders Coalition. He is the author of numerous books published by a mainstream evangelical publisher, Bethany House.

 

Cindy Jacobs headshotProphet Cindy Jacobs, author, co-founder of Generals International, and co-host of “God Knows” television program. Jacobs–a close colleague of C. Peter Wagner–is invited to prophesy before gatherings of Religious Right leaders, like she did at this event co-hosted by the Family Research Council. Jacobs also founded the Reformation Prayer Network–a 50-state network of NAR followers who are seeking to reform the United States through strategic-level spiritual warfare and political action. She has a number of books published by a mainstream evangelical publishers Bethany House and Chosen Books (both divisions of Baker Publishing Group).

Prophet/seer and teacher Jonathan Welton, author, blogger, and founder of the Supernatural Bible School Online. Welton–whose popularity is soaring–teaches mental/spiritual exercises for developing supernatural gifts, such as prophesying, reading auras, and healing people.

 

Rick JoynerProphet Rick Joyner, author of over 40 books, co-founder of MorningStar Ministries, and senior pastor of MorningStar Fellowship Church in Fort Mill, South Carolina. Joyner has deep ties with the Religious Right, including founding the politically active “Oak Initiative” and being a featured speaker at conferences sponsored by the Freedom Federation.

 

Teacher Lance Wallnau, director of the Lance Learning Group, founder of 7M University, and member of Ken Blanchard’s board. Wallnau has been described by People For The American Way as the hidden architect behind the NAR dominionist agenda known as the “Seven Mountain Mandate.”

 

Brian Simmons headshotApostle Brian Simmons, founder of Stairway Ministries in Wichita, Kansas, and producer of “The Passion Translation.” Simmons is presently producing a new translation of the entire Bible aimed specifically at an NAR readership. It has the potential to become the translation of choice for people participating in the NAR movement.

 

Prophet Chuck Pierce, author, president of Global Spheres, Inc., and president of Glory of Zion International Ministries. Though also getting along in years, Pierce made my list because he is an influential prophet and was chosen by C. Peter Wagner to be his successor and take over Wagner’s Global Harvest Ministries (which Pierce renamed Global Spheres, Inc.).

Who would you add to this list?

– By Holly Pivec

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119 Responses to “The Changing of the Apostolic Guard: 13 Names to Watch”

  1. Jean Says:

    Angus Buchan – a South African preacher/teacher and founder of the Mighty Men movement that is now starting to travel the world. He preaches a mixture of the NAR and Word Faith doctrines. Also know as the “rain maker”, he gets invited to drought stricken towns to come and pray for rain. His ministry is called Shalom ministries. Here is an example of his warped teachings: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqK3jWgY81o

  2. Riles Says:

    How about Graham Cooke.  He has done like Johnson did in the early 2000s, by hanging on the fringe and keeping a small devoted base.  He has become more widespread now, and may become another Bill Johnson in a couple of years.  Also what are your thoughts about Toad Bentley in the equation?

  3. Kathy Brown Says:

    To all of my fellow Evangelical Christians who are buying into this very subtle and dangerous changing of the Gospel….. THE EMPEROR HAS NO CLOTHES!!!!!!

  4. Holly Says:

    Riles,

    Yes, Graham Cooke is an influential NAR prophet–definitely someone to keep our eyes on. I think people will always follow Todd Bentley–but, given his dramatic fall, I’m not sure he will ever be as influential in the NAR movement as some of these other apostles and prophets.

    Holly

  5. Holly Says:

    Jean,

    Very interesting video clip. Thanks for the link. I’m concerned about how impressed the people in the video were by a sign and wonder–not realizing the possibilities of deceptive signs and wonders.
    Holly

  6. Jean Says:

    Re: Angus Buchan… This man started his Ministry as a result of a “miracle”. He bought a farm and planted Potatoes in an area where they cannot grow. He believed that God told him to do it. He had a record harvest and has since written a book and made a movie called “Faith like potatoes”. The frightning thing is the that here in South Africa this man holds meetings in Rugby stadiums and draws thousands of people and at every meeting something “funny” happens. Once the clouds above the stadium formed into a shape of a heart – another time he was called to a town which where experiancing a 5 year drought and while he was preaching and “praying” for rain clouds formed and it started to rain. This also happened in Australia where he was invited to come and pray for rain. They gave him the nickname “rain maker”. He also raised a woman from the dead after she was killed by a lightning strike on a farm … etc

    Holly, i believe the problem does not lie with these fake and false men and woman…they have always been there and will always be there until Jesus comes. No i believe the biggest problem is with the born-again believers. We should teach fellow believers to be like the Bereans (Acts 17:10=11) and like the Ephesians (Rev 2:2-3). I think we have become very “complacent” and we are not obeying 2 Tim 4:1-2.

    Holly, Thanks for you blog – you are doing a GREAT task… I pray that lots of “wandering” believers will “stumble” onto it and that you will receive the grace to keep up the good work.

    Blessings

  7. Holly Says:

    Jean,

    Thanks for the background information on Angus Buchan. He is on my radar now. And thank you for your encouraging words.

    Holly

  8. Carey Says:

    add  Randy Clark – Global Awakening

  9. greg Says:

    Hi..I am not sure Angus Buchan should be included in this list. I mean if these signs actually happened..which are not gold dust and glory clouds..then where is the problem with that? I saw the video faith like potatoes and was very moved. Angus Buchan suffered a lot in his life. Watch the movie. If his teachings are going astray then they need to be named and critiqued properly. But just because he fills stadiums is no yardstick for judging him. He seemed a humble man to me.

  10. Holly Says:

    Greg,

    I agree with you that we should focus on examining a person’s doctrines. I have not had the time to research the teachings of Buchan, so I will limit my comments about him. But my radar does go off when I see that Buchan surrounds himself with NAR apostles and prophets, such as Rick Joyner. See a conference he spoke at with Joyner here: http://itickets.co.za/events/286752/Pretoria Also, notice that the conference is titled “The Apostolic Prophetic Conference.” This indicates to me the strong possibility that Buchan holds to NAR beliefs since the New Apostolic Reformation movement is also known as the “apostolic-prophetic” movement.

    Holly

  11. greg Says:

    Holly,

         I have been on a few watchman type sites over the years and personally I judge them by the tone and spirit of the moderators. You can be right but you can be wrong if you know what I mean. So may I am encouraged by your response that exercises caution but with wisdom and understanding and grace. 

    I would say that if Angus Buchan started out as a raw Christian who had a zeal for the things of God and the uncluttered faith by which God could work through in real and powerful ways, such as planting crops against all the odds, praying for rain and it did, being used to raise a woman from the dead, which seemed real from the way he told it…then I would myself prefer to see a man like that restored to his original way of faith if it is that he has somehow being misled. From seeing his movie and hearing him speak years ago, and viewing his home circumstances which are humble to say the least, then I feel in my spirit that this man above all of them is worth approaching with caution and a reverence for for God in the sense of what he seems to have done through this mans life in the past.

    If you look at how old he is and how long he has been around you will not find a plethora of books by him or a multitude of DvDs. You will not see him touting for “Partners” for his ministry.  He lives I believe in a house he and his wife and a farmworker made with their own hands from mud and wattle. 

    I have never heard him speak like a dominionist and as far as I know he just believed in preaching the gospel and that God still did miracles. And don’t we all believe that as christians. Anyway..your site is refreshing in it’s approach. It seems you have a pure agenda with pure motives..to me anyway.

         Greg..

  12. Jean Says:

    Greg,
    Angus Buchan was groomed by Kenneth & Gloria Copeland. He spoke at one of his Mighty Men conferences and told the audiance that the Copeland’s teachings were his biggest inspiration when it came to praying for healings and miracles. Angus has all the Copeland’s teaching seminars on tapes and he regulary listens to them for inspiration.
    Angus does not apply any form of disernment to what he believes and preaches. He told his audiance at one meating that: “the Catholics must not leave their church, the SDA’s must not leave their church, the Mormons must not leave their church, no, as long as they know Jesus, they will be ok…”
    Angus might have a “humble” personality but that is not a test or proof of a true Faith.

    On planting his crops in faith . . .he only did it for ONE YEAR and never again. I questioned him about this and he refused to answer.
    A number of people have approached Angus on his wrong doctine and teachings but they were “shown the door”. He is very stubborn does not display a teachable spirit.

    Beware, Satan comes looking like the angel of light . . .

  13. M. K. Says:

    George Otis Jr. might be one to add. Back in the 90′s when I had some contact with this gang, he was one of the rising stars alongside Cindy. I have no idea if he is still even in good standing with them, but he bears watching. I’ve been out of that loop for decades now.

  14. T Says:

    Faisal Malick, a former sunni muslim whom converted to christianity through a visitation from jesus, thats what he claims. His ministry is Covenant of Life(langley, british columbia, canada) and is streamed live every sunday. He has written books on a number of topics from islams role in the end times…The Political Spirit and a few others…(google it). I just discovered this website in the past 24 hrs from a facebook post. I had no idea what NAR was. But when I came across the 7 mountain mandate and various other teachings, it was like I was reading exactly what Faisal teaches. I actually thought it was his own “vision” or ministry teachings. I have been a member of this church for a year now and i am also in a quasi-leadership role. I have never in my life paid much attention to “movements”. This latest revelation however has really bothered me, to a point I am questioning everything. I am looking back now and everything that is taught in the NAR movement is literally verbatim to what I have been exposed too. I will say, there never has been a time in my life in the past year, where I have had so many questions or personal battles with his teachings. I find the messages to be regurgitated over and over. the “conference”..which are many…are essentially the same theme and tithing is always at the center of it. I have struggled hugely in the area of tithing, especially when I am told over and over I will see breakthrough in my business if I tithe on 10% of my gross income. Well I can tell u I am not seeing it. As a matter of fact, I am going through the most challenging time of my life financially….yet the message keeps getting shoved down my throat. U feel guilty if u don’t tithe….or if I don’t I am serving “mammon”…I mean c’mon. Faisal is wealthy, he admits it in his sermons, yet we have alot of people suffering financially in our church. The services are streamed live…a full on camera crew and production team..a retail booth for member to buy books….advertising banners are on the pulpit…”The Plumbline Institute” etc. I find the services generic and rehearsed. As u can tell I AM FIRED up about this and angry. My concern is my reaction and not sure how to approach this issue. Faisal is always surrounded by his “security” team, its weird but i just accepted it. he has this “messianic” appeal from most of the congregation, however for me He has always challenged me. Maybe this is a “sign”…not sure anymore now…sorry for the rant!

  15. M. K. Says:

    We were in Prince George BC, similar situation with NAR and similar teachings (Latter Rain, Word of Life, Vineyard stuff) and it’s all got common sources.

    We (dh and I) were faithfully tithing, on the GROSS not the net income even as that is what Tim Osiowy (watch out for him, he has moved to the lower mainland) taught. He was the pastor that excommunicated us.

    OK long story short, as long as I was giving to that church, we got further and further in debt. We started a rental business to meet our tithe obligation and the rental market collapsed on us.

    Finally we left, and we were a hairsbreadth away from bankruptcy for the next 7 years. Sounds like a biblical number but it may have been 8 when we were finally able to sell the rental properties at a terrible loss.

    We stopped tithing because we didn’t have the funds.

    At first I was SURE we would be cursed. But we gave what we could and were stunned as God blessed us, met our needs and gradually pulled us up out of debt.

    We still don’t tithe. We don’t give 10% but we do give, and we don’t count it much, some years we’ve given so much that we have been audited, but I don’t think it ever amounted to the “full tithe” as we used to do.

    I have realized that God doesn’t demand a tithe. That is, a particular amount. Each one is to give as they are able, and as they feel they should.

    Grace not the Law.

    A true Christian will always have a giving heart. At times he or she may not be able to give $ but time, or baking or some other volunteer work happens.

    We are not under the old Covenant. Christ fulfilled it for us, so all the doom talk and forcing the sheep to tithe so their “coverings’ can live it up, is dead wrong.

    Try stopping the “tithe”, leave that “church” and go to one that isn’t affiliated in any way. (we found a home in a great little Baptist church in Kamloops).

    Start giving there, don’t worry about a %, just pray, give what you feel is called for, and watch as God begins to bless you in opposition to the lies you’ve been under.

    All the best

  16. Holly Says:

    T,

    You don’t need a “sign” to get out of the NAR church you are in–I think the writing is already on the wall. : )

    And I think M.K. nailed the tithing issue, by stating: “I have realized that God doesn’t demand a tithe. That is, a particular amount. Each one is to give as they are able, and as they feel they should.We are not under the old Covenant. Christ fulfilled it for us, so all the doom talk and forcing the sheep to tithe so their “coverings’ can live it up, is dead wrong.

    Amen.

    Holly

  17. Hugh Webb Says:

    Holly.
    I love the site and the loving way you handle the issues.
    I would like to add my 2 cents worth on the Angus Buchan issue. I’m South African; I’ve been to the Mighty Men Conference a few years back…..and I have been an Aplogetic for a while now. Which means that I rely on the Holy Spirit and the Word of God to guide me through everything; especially when doctrine is involved.
    While I do think that Angus is a honest man that really loves God; I do believe that he is deceived. I have studied his teachings and videos and it basically comes down to emotional hype and constant referral to the Holy Ghost going to do the miracle of the weekend (like in Israel, on his trip there). The teaching is very much into NAR/Dominionism territory.
    The fact that he lives in a humble house is true; and he makes sure everybody knows it. Sound humble???

  18. Alyssia Harmon Says:

    Responsce to “T Says: September 4th, 2013 at 6:45 pm”

    Hi T!

    Re: Your comment, “Faisal Malick . . I am looking back now and everything that is taught in the NAR movement is literally verbatim to what I have been exposed too. . . I will say, there never has been a time in my life in the past year, where I have had so many questions or personal battles with his teachings.

    Like you, “T”, I have had to leave both the New Apostolic Reformation, the Emerging Church movement, and the Purpose-Driven church movement – and begin the slow journey reconnecting with Jesus again. It took me three years of gut-wrenching upheaval! A lot of my Christian friends didn’t make it. So I really feel for you.

    Blessings, Alyssia

  19. T Says:

    I have since spoke with a former member whom was employed with covenant of life ministries and was let go due to challenging them with scripture that refuted there teachings. Needless to say it didn’t go that well and he was terminated immediately. He revealed things to me backed up with scripture that really blew my mind. Essentially in his opinion and IMO, the church is running like a business and not a church. Various corporate entities for profit & non-profit, both registered in canada and the US. Even things that I will keep to myself, just to be on the safe side.

    Regardless, the real issue at hand is how deceived I feel. I personally have had great struggle in my faith spanning through my 20′s and 30″s. Having experianced a turbulent childhood, exposure to church at an early age which wasn’t pleasant and of course personal choices I made created alot of trust issues with church in general and which effected my relationship with christ.

    Having gone through a divorce and business trouble in the past 5 years, my personal life has been shaken dramatically. In the past year I have never come closer to God in my life and was very encouraged when I began attending this church. I really believed I was in the right place and even was brought to a point where I began serving in the church. Well as I have explained, this has all been for nothing and again deceived by the church.

    When will the christian church wake up??? We are so concerned with things of the world that we have gotten away from the basics..the great commission…taking care of the needy (not through donations to corporate entities but actually developing relationships with these people) etc. Its all about chasing wealth…prosperity and positioning yourself for success now and this movement encourages that,,CLM church encouraged that because the leaders themselves are “very wealthy” as we were told on number of occasions…its all very sick!!!

  20. barbara Says:

    we can find many ways to divide. we look to Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith. we are human, folks. each and every one of us. He uses broken, leaky vessels for His glory.  :)

  21. Bill Smith Says:

    So, y’all are saying that there are no Apostles or Prophets today?

  22. Nathan Welton Says:

    I have to say that I am really proud of my brother to making it into the top ten on your little list. It is a real honor and I am pleased that you can see how powerfully God is using him to restore Biblical truth and balance to the body of believers. Thank you.

  23. Brian Peat Says:

    This will probably get me crucified, but we chose Third Day because our events guy was sitting around and thought, “I wonder if we could get Third Day to lead worship at VOA this year” there was no special plan involved and no specific reason they ended up on the same night as Bill Johnson. As far as “Johnson has convinced many evangelicals that all Christians should perform miracles–such as healing and prophesying–frequently and as part of their daily lives.” um, yeah, so has Randy Clark, and you know what, it’s what I see the early church doing. God still moves, why they heck can’t normal people do supernatural stuff in the name of Jesus? We live in a hurting world. Imagine a world where all Christians simply ooze the love of Jesus and can pray for healing or give an encouraging word to ANYONE they meet on the street…and they can actually HEAR God’s voice too. That’s the Christianity I want to be a part of. Sure, there are crazies and manipulators out there, but every stream has those. All the people around me are genuine, caring and they simply want to live out Jesus’ lifestyle in their world. What’s so wrong with that?

  24. kristi Says:

    Praise God for these men and women that are sold out! 
    Praise God that HE will have HIS way!!! Praise God that God is the judge and not people!  Praise God that each of you that are speaking poorly of those that are chosen to lead are perfect in every way.  Praise God that He has mercy and grace! 

    Sad to see and hear christians bash those that are out there working the fields.

    I don’t agree with everything anyone says except the word of God… but at least these men are working the fields… 

  25. Sue Ellen Says:

    Surprised I didn’t see Todd Bentley, John Crowder, Benjamin Dunn, Don Keathley, Joseph Prince, Joshua Tongol, to name a few. Most names on your list are dedicated to lifting up the name of Jesus. Thank you for unknowingly promoting them.  Sincerely IN CHRIST sue

  26. James Says:

    This website says, “a biblical response to the modern prophets and apostles movement.”  I see nothing “biblical” being offered here, except a religious spirit that needs to be cast out.  Jesus said they will know us by our love.  There is NO LOVE on this site.  Just disgruntled so-called christians (I won’t even give the courtesy of capitalizing the “C” as I do not believe that you are REAL Christians).  You have nothing better to do than to offer up unfounded, baseless opinions.  Try reading the Bible and BELIEVING IT. And if you have a “biblical response”, try supporting it with Scripture.  there is not even ONE Scripture to support your claims.  Not even ONE.  God is not dead.  Neither has He stopped working in the earth.  As for the men and women you criticize, God bless them.  Way to go.  You and millions of other BELIEVERS are doing the greater works that Jesus commanded us to do.  He said signs would follow those who BELIEVE.  (Mk. 16) I see miracles, signs and wonders, and the Glory of God EVERY DAY of my life.  I live my life for the Glory of God.  If you want to add me to your “hate” list, go ahead.  I would be happy to make the list, and to be “persecuted” for the sake of the Gospel.  I will NEVER be ashamed of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.  I will FOREVER live the commission of Jesus to “Go and proclaim the Kingdom of God is at hand, and as you go heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, cast out demons and raise the dead.  Freely you’ve received.  Freely give.”  (Mt. 10; Lk. 9; Lk. 10) My faith is simple.  Jesus said I could do it, so I do it!

  27. Megan Says:

    It wasn’t Bill Johnson that taught people should heal, cast out devils and do the works of the Father.. Jesus did that.  He said all the believe will do these things. Blessings!

  28. Bren Says:

    The understanding I have received is there are those who have been set aside for a season of training and purification/sanctification, who have also been anointed to birth a new breed of Apostles Father has in training. They are coming into Spiritual Union with our Father and His Son quietly behind the scene. They are forerunners, who will be manifested, in HIS perfect timing, (during the greatest Spiritual Renaissance since the 5 Fold Ministry had their birth). Those who serve through the resurrected power of Christ within, according to HIS unfolding, will not fit the current role model as Father has plans which far exceed our finite expectations, (such has not been conceptualized, but will be recognized in the Spirit when it come into Being).  Too much of what has taken place since Calvary has been tainted by the ‘fresh nature’ (the entire old man must die, the perceived good as well as evil for the new Creation to come forth in the image and likeness of His Son). This movement you speak of has also been limited, by our attempt to duplicate (with finite understanding and power) that which was a part of the infancy of the Church.  That was only a beginning of that which HE will bring to pass in due season.
    With that in mind I would like to offer two links to be taken before the Lord:
    http://www.enterrest.com/god_himself_is_training_up_a_new.htm
     
    http://www.enterrest.com/Gods_Vision_For_His_Church.htm
     
     

  29. Kirk Says:

    Bill Johnson, Kris Vallonton, Jonathan Welton all have changed my life for the better and my faith has grown with these men. I highly recommend them all.

  30. Bill Smith Says:

    Well said, Megan.

  31. Andy Rudd Says:

    It’s weird to see people criticized for teaching about tithing when that’s a cornerstone of evangelical conservative churches, esp.  Baptists.

    I am thankful for most of the folks on this list……great people who are teaching Scripture and leading many into truth.

  32. susan ark Says:

    way-to-go standing for the Kingdom Jonathan, GOD is well-pleased!!!!!!!

  33. ruben Says:

    good job SOE, just one thing,

     “If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you.

    I don’t see where it says to go write an article about them … and for the record, Im not implying that they sinned or that they are sinners, but my point is, if you have something against YOUR brothers/sisters in Christ, coz, whether you like it or not THEY ARE, well, that’s the BIBLICAL way to do it!

  34. LoveLMV Says:

    Pastor Joseph Prince has changed and brought back the essencials of grace. After is the good news!

  35. Adam LiVecchi Says:

    To the critics. You don’t make sense. All the places the church is really growing and is being persecuted is also where miracles and healing’s are common.

  36. Toni Bucci Says:

    I Just got back from a “God is good” conference with Bill Johnson…….and Jonathon Welton is my spiritual father.  I have never met men more in love with Jesus.  They walk in the most genuine love for people I have ever witnessed.  Yes….God is good, receive his goodness!

  37. Jean Says:

    Why do people want to “protect” their favourite Pastor/teacher ?

    “Any objection to the carryings on of our present gold-calf
    Christianity is met with the triumphant reply,
    “But we are winning them!”
    And winning them to what?
    To true discipleship?
    To cross-carrying?
    To self-denial?       
    To separation from the world?
    To crucifixion of the flesh?
    To holy living?
    To nobility of character?
    To a despising of the world´s treasures?…”
    -A.W.Tozer

    If you TRULY love your fellow Christians then you will warn them about the Wolf in sheeps clothes that will devour them and lead them to an eternal death. Amen ?

  38. Sofia Tzakis Says:

    Graham Cooke – James Goll

  39. Natha Says:

    The only wolves in sheep’s clothing I see are the ones advocating judgements and condemnation on Christian leaders they disagree with.

  40. Brian Peat Says:

    We’re not going to solve years of dispensationalism in one comment thread, but I caution you on who you accuse of being a wolf in sheeps clothing. I know some of these people personally, in your broad assumption you have lumped THOUSANDS of believers into this group. I work for Randy Clark’s ministry and we have many of these speakers at our conferences. I have personally met several of them. I know Randy’s heart (his kids work in my office with me), I’ve been on a trip to Brazil with him as a student of his ministry school. I personally witness people getting healed and brought to Christ as a result of his ministry. Your conclusion is that because Randy is simply teaching that everyone can do exactly what Jesus did and taught, he (and others like Bill Johnson) must be a wolf leading folks astray. I challenge you to prove that claim. Again, I have personally met many of these people. Have you? I know their hearts and can see their fruit, do you?

    Your statement is suggesting that you, having never met me or my friends, my pastor, my boss, and my peers, know more about us than we know about ourselves, and you’re making an assumption about our faith and our relationship with Jesus.

    I’ll be praying for you today that Jesus shows you something new and fresh and opens your eyes to EVERYTHING he has for us :)

  41. Phil Drysdale Says:

    Awesome list my friend!

    I’ve personally been blessed by almost every one on the list and although I might not agree with every one of them 100% I’m certain that all of them are devout Christians who love Jesus and are changing the world for the better!
    Thanks for drawing attention to people who are passionate about seeing God’s kingdom impact this world and equipping people to walk in the power of the Spirit rather than the letter of the law. :)

  42. Hugh Says:

    Holly
    You are doing Gods work and doing it well. It amazes me that there are so many supporters of the people on the list here. But what really bothers me, is that the total lack of discernment is evident. The parroting of doctrinal lessons from Johnson and others just keep coming.

    And the few people that actually kept mentioning that they are in total agreement on the signs and wonders…….why in the world are they not in our hospitals this very moment? They should be healing the sick and making the crippled walk as we speak!!

    The fact is that these teachers can be as passionate as they want about their “gospel”; but it is NOT Biblical, and they are leading their flock away from the Loving, Full of Grace God that we find in Jesus Christ. Our Faith in Him does not rely on signs and wonders; but in the very essence of our Hope we have in Him, to have Life in Him.

  43. Brian Peat Says:

    They ARE in our hospitals, to the extent that they are allowed. They are NOT leading their flock away from God. You don’t know me, or my friends, peers, pastor, boss, or anyone on this list. How dare you accuse them of leading folks astray or away from God. Until you MEET them and hear their heart, how can you even make that accusation? If I go to the mall and pray for someone and the pain in their knee is healing and I give God the glory, was it satan doing the healing? What a dead faith we have if miracles aren’t for today. My faith does not rely on signs and wonders, but they are an integral part of it and for you to basically accuse me of doing the work of the enemy is upsetting. I do as my father does, just as Jesus does. How is that not biblical? You’ve given satan all the power on this earth, how is THAT Biblical in the least?

  44. Hugh Says:

    Brian

    In all loving kindness, neither do you and all the others that criticize us for showing out the wrong; know me.

    And to tell you quickly: I have seen some in the hospital, when they came to pray for the paralysis in my face and right arm (not healed………BUT the Lord healed my heart earlier, made me whole again, saved me from hell. I’ve seen some who prayed up a storm for my mother who suffered from cancer. She eventually died a painful death in my arms; never ceasing to call Christ’s name. (fortunately she was saved and did not rely on healing as sign of redemption ) I know all about these teachers because I have seen them do damage to my family and friends. I have for a while even believed them; until I started studying the Word for myself…..with the Holy Spirit as a guide.

    If you see all the testimonies of the clouds, gold dust, grave sucking, idolatry, name it and it is there……how can you not see that it is totally against all that Christ gives us??? Please tell me that you will be able to really be a Berean as in Acts and study the Word to prove even Paul himself. Yes, he commended the Bereans because they checked the Scriptures to see if his teachings are in order.

    I implore you Brian, do some research on the false teachings of these men. You will be astounded.

  45. Brian Peat Says:

    Nah, I’m done here. Don’t know why I even bothered.

  46. greg Says:

    There is a clear division among Christians as to geunineness , the authority the authenticity of the men on the list above and neither camp will sway except through personal revelation from God that their position is untenable or needs to be modified. I myself am on the camp of opposition to these men and indeed others not on the list such as those mentioned by another poster…Todd Bentley Che Ahn and indeed anyone involved with the NAR or the word of faith movement. And why so? well for me for example in Todd Bentleys case it was not even his sin. I am a sinner and have sinned as a Christian. It was his utter lack of reverence for the way he speaks about God making him out to be some bootboy skinhead. His utter famiilarity in the WRONGEST sense in the way he approaches God. 

    God is my father in heaven who I love and as his child I have every right to defend his integrity..and that is what I do. And a case in point that sums it all up for me is the ceremony in which Todd Bentley was given the apostolic seal of approval by men on the list above and some who are not there. The utter lack of discernment into this mans character, the sheer blind manner in which so called prophets and apostles proclaimed wonderful things about this man and the mans heart of purity and love for God and the amazing ministry he would continue in..whilst Todd’s wife stood beside him on stage..only to discover..THE VERY NEXT DAY! that he was having an affair..was totally revealing about the depth, the strength the sheer arrogance and falsehood of these mens ministries. And to view the antics of Che Ahn supposedly playing with the Holy Spirit in such an irreverent way..was disturbing and sad to say the least. In my spirit I felt quite strongly and without a  shred of doubt…run from these men.

    And one last thing..if any man thinks that anyone who says Jesus is Lord and holds up his name and seems to be used by God to bring an anointing of the spirit then I advise you to google “Marjoe Gortner” and watch the whole movie.

  47. greg Says:

    Correction on above post, last paragraph: should have read “….if any man thinks that anyone who says Jesus is Lord and holds up the name of Jesus and who seems to be used by God to bring an anointing of the spirit can only be a genuine Christian, then I advise you to google “Marjoe Gortner” and source and watch the whole movie.”

  48. A. S. Says:

    For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 [Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie

  49. A. S. Says:

    24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25 Behold, I have told you before Mat 24:24,25

  50. A. S. Says:

    My first post was 2 Thes 2:7-11

  51. Hugh Says:
  52. martiO Says:

    anyone heard of Phil Drysdale… ??? He is a graduate of Bethel School of Supernatural Ministry in California… http://www.phildrysdale.com/2013/10/37-scriptures-that-prove-christians-are-not-under-the-law/

    this is interesting… however the red flag for me is that the Christian no longer has a sin nature… um…hello??? one only has to look in the mirror…. i find this frightening because most of what he teaches on Law vs. Grace is true…. looks like no stone unturned now with deception… looks like he may be one of new generation of apostles and prophets… any feedback is appreciated..

  53. barbara Says:

    Wow, martiO, thank you. Sincerely. I believe your intention was a different one, but I love Phil’s teaching on the law and grace. Now I can explore it further. it made my spirit come alive. Bless you as you seek Him, too. With love, b

  54. martiO Says:

    I have no problem with Phils basic teaching on Law vs. Grace, however i have a problem with Phil being involved with the NAR …. as usual a mix of truth and error always ends up as poison…

  55. Austin Hellier Says:

    Hey Holly,
    sounds like you’ve got a whole shooting gallery going on up there! I’ve been watching this NAR movement for some years now (see my email that I sent earlier today) and I’m convinced that there are many sincere believers who are looking for something new and fresh to belong to (a ‘new move’ of God) and that this ‘spiritual vacuum’ that many perceive has also been spotted by the NAR movement, and they are attempting to fill it with their teachings and existential experiences. They are ‘contouring’ their offer to the people that they see as being at a loose end.

    We’ve had Che Ahn, Brian Simmons, and Bill Johnson in person over here in Australia on a regular basis for at least the last few years, and Cindy Jacobs is here on TV regularly, with all of her disciples hanging out for the latest ‘word’ – it’s a shame that none of them have ever come true, except the ones that were given half way through an event, or with “hindsight”.

    I myself am a classical Pentecostal and so have no problems with the supernatural, as long as it glorifies God and is aligned with His word. In the days of the apostles, we had the word preached, and then signs followed the word to confirm it with the result of salvation for many. This was just not about the signs though – salvation came through conviction of the sinner’s lost state.

    The trouble today, is that we have a lot of garbage being preached that is not word based, and a whole bunch of people who just follow the ‘signs’ around – and that means just about any old “signs and wonders” which are for the most part, unbiblical. It’s amazing how many young and inexperienced people will go through all kinds of whacky things and gives lots of money to these people, but they won’t support long term hard working missionaries in outback Australia, who have never seen anything like $ 1 million in donations each year! Poor people never see anything coming from “tithes” either – only the ‘priesthood’ and of course, the ‘temple’ where they minister.

    Austin Hellier
    Downunder

  56. Hanna Says:

    Hello,

    As someone with one foot in the NAR movement, I’d like to put in my 2 cents. I personally have a distaste for demon casting out, holy laughter, weird shaking, misleading prophesies, expecting silly, selfish miracles, selfish financial hopes etc. Hard work and savings sound a lot more self-controlled and sensible than the former things I’ve listed. However, I do pray in tongues myself with the worry that the tongues are fake, yet I can’t deny that I feel a ton of love for whomever it is that I’m praying for yet don’t know them well enough to give them a gift of a good prayer. Plus, there’s enough in the bible telling me to tongues is real to give me courage. Second, I have experienced random financial miracles and just random miraculous prophesies that came true to the Word multiple times. 
    I have experienced a drastic heart healing, but I’ve never seen a illness healing, although I’ve seen a bunch of old church ladies suddenly start attending this one homeless ministry because they said the pastor healed one of their grandkid’s Leukemia through prayer. And there’s enough in the bible for me to believe that God can do a miraculous healing, even though He doesn’t do it everytime for everyone.
    I brutally tithe 20% of my income because I made a promise to God which I feel I must keep, I tutor foster children, mentor young children, give to homeless, you know, read my bible everyday, pray everyday… etc. I really try very hard to be pleasing to God in the more practical ways as taught by Piper, Keller, Packer, Moody, Lewis, Blackaby, etc. Do I expect something back from this? No! That’s the thing… The NAR movement is so much better when you don’t expect payback for the “sacrifices” you make, but if it does come, you’re like, I’m so glad I asked, cause this is much easier!
    I think that the NAR movement alone (no good Word basis) can be misleading, but together with a strong basis in the Word, it gives a person the power and a new level of faith to do more drastic things, sacrificial things, without expecting any return other than treasure in heaven and to please God. Also, that connection to the Holy Spirit just makes each praise song sweeter, and a prayer time transformative. Like my face is radiant after an hour of praying and crying and repentance. How many of you experience this every day? How many lay people here have friends coming up to them saying you’ve changed their life, just by being joyful and kind? And how many people have friends accusing them of having changed when they got a little slack in their prayer life. Well, this is me. God moves in my life in a noticable manner. 
    I don’t know. So why couldn’t some of this stuff be real? So if someone experiences God by shaking all weird, so be it, as long as they have the fruit of the Spirit of which there is no law against, who cares? If people want to face demons by casting them out, who cares if it works? And if it doesn’t, we’ll have to fall back to age-old methods of renewal of the mind and effort. All of us fall short of the glory of God. All of us. Or maybe those people aren’t pleasing the Lord with all their shaking and stuff. But in the end, are they sincere, and is God pleased that they are trying? I look at it this way, when someone has a spirit of error inside of them, yet they are doing it for Jesus, I feel like God will look at their heart. Kind of reminds me of that one Old Testament gentile that discovers God and asks for God to pardon him when he has to take his master down to bow to an idol and ends up bowing too. The thing is, God loves us despite all our filthy sins. And it is HE, who teaches us. 

    I’ve fallen down before when no one even touched me. The pastor came by, and my church sisters and I held our feet like we’re not going to fall unless this is God, and the guy just blew, and we all went down. And when we got up, the feeling was the same as after an hour or two of deep prayer, a feeling of ecstasy, love and joy. Some people were like shuddering on the ground… so for me, this stuff is real. I’ve experienced the kind when people push you down, and my abs always engage cause I don’t care to go down onto a dirty floor unless the Holy Spirit drops me. Perhaps there is a scientific explanation for my experience, but we don’t know it yet. For now, all I know, guy blew air, 100′s of people went down, got up feeling a million percent. AWESOME. It’s this kind of stuff that makes it easier to live radically as the bible actually teaches. I would say people who haven’t experienced this kind of thing are alot more cautious in trusting that God is real, and will be there even after they screw themselves over with poor decisions.

    And lastly, I’ve also made false conclusions about God’s voice, which makes me uber cautious now and desirous of wisdom. I thought God told me this one guy was my husband, and when I told my friends I dreamed about him, they immediately said that was God’s husband for me… instead of a silly, hopeful girl’s desire. I’m really glad this happened, because I am uber cautious. Not everything I think is God, is God. And that’s true for all NAR people out there. We are sinners, and we are selfish. And we want to justify our selfish actions as God’s voice. But just cause alot of us aren’t good at it, doesn’t mean God doesn’t do miracles anymore, that God doesn’t guide us, and protect us and direct us in a very visible and blatant way as the NAR people do it. That being said, people don’t stay NAR unless they constantly are being reassured with miracles by God and by the Word. Of my peers, NAR people read bible more and do good works more than the non-NAR counterparts. Almost 10 times more. At least, these are the people I know.

  57. Holly Says:

    Hanna,

    Thanks for sharing your own experiences with us. I wouldn’t define many of the teachings and practices you described as “NAR.” Some of them are more “Pentecostal” or “charismatic.” And believing that God can heal people miraculously does not make someone NAR–it makes them biblical.

    The distinctive teaching of the NAR movement is that God has restored the present-day offices of apostle and prophet to govern the church.

    I am glad you are very cautious about discerning what is of God and isn’t.

  58. Jean Says:

    Hallo Hanna
     
    I read your post/comment with great interest and sadness. I was just reminded again that there are many more believers in your position that might be “struggling”  with discerning Truth from error in their churches.
    Please allow me to share what you (and anyone else reading this)  what I believe God has shown/revealed to me regarding the NAR movement and other Hyper Charismatic teachers. Maybe it can be of help to you as well.
     
    A few years ago I was lead by God to look at the methods of operation of these people claiming to be apostles & prophets and I discovered they all have one thing in common nl. You must have a “feel good” experience at their meetings or in their presence! This is their key to success. They feed on your “fleshly” desires and then give you a “fleshly” experience. I have jokingly said in my house groups that these people preach a “feel-good-religion”. 
    This is a direct contradiction to what the Bible teaches us. 
    “Gal 5:16  So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will never fulfill the desires of the flesh. 
    Gal 5:17  For what the flesh wants is opposed to the Spirit, and what the Spirit wants is opposed to the flesh. They are opposed to each other, and so you do not do what you want to do.” 
     
    Please note that it is not wrong to have a good experience while worshiping God BUT it must be within the biblical guidelines and this is where I think the problems lies. We do not put the biblical guidelines into practice. Eg. One of the gifts of the Spirit is self-control. That means that I will be able to control myself under all circumstances if I choose to. The Spirit of God will never “override” me  because he gives this “power” to me to be in control of myself at all times. I will always have a choice on how to react. Look at what happened at the “strongest” outpouring of the Holy Spirit ever in Acts 2.
    Peter and the other Apostles stood up and spoke with a clear mind and in full control of their bodies.
    They did not fall “useless” to the ground and lay their shaking. No, when the Spirit of God empowers you, you will have new boldness and strength to stand up and do His will. (Please read Acts 4:7-13) 
    It clearly states that Peter was filled with the Holy Spirit when he spoke.
     
    Now If I am standing in a church, worshiping God and I fall over without having made the choice to fall, it cannot be The Spirit of God. It must be then another spirit or I have been preconditioned/hypnotized to fall over at a certain command or action from the preacher. 
    Hanna, you mentioned that the preacher “blew” on you and you fell down.
    Now this is where it gets very interesting. 
    In England there is a very prestigious society called The British Society of Clinical Hypnosis and they are a professional body whose aim is to promote and assure high standards in the practice of hypnotherapy.  Registration/affiliation to this society demands good quality training, ethical practice and adherence to a strict code of conduct.
     
    In 2006 the governing body The British Society of Clinical Hypnosis where show a video of a church gathering where Benny Hinn, & Rodney Howard Brown “did their thing”. They concluded that Benny Hinn and Rodney are masters in the art of Hypnosis. One of the members of this society, Andrew Newton,  wrote the following :
     
    The damnation of hypnotism and hypnotists by these new breed of Charismatic teachers is based on the fear that once made public, the knowledge of what is actually happening will upset the apple cart once and for all and the game will be well and truly up. The gravy train will grind to a halt and along with it, the tenuous hold on power. The God-botherers will then not only be out of a job, but exposed as the power crazed con artists most of them really are.
    This particularly applies to charismatic ‘healers’ like Benny Hinn. This brand of faith healing service is something that is found almost exclusively in the Christian religion. It is highly competitive and definitely falls into the category of big business. Benny Hinn is the market leader and makes around one hundred million US dollars a year. No wonder he, and the rest of his ilk, don’t want you to know how it’s really done! They unashamedly capitalise on expectation and therefore suggestion before the punter even turns up at the venue. The psychological build up, the expectancy, starts from the moment the willing spectators book their tickets. Just like the stage hypnosis show, the evening follows a tried and tested pattern with highs and lows, the liberal use of appropriate music to drive home the point and the peak experiences enjoyed by the people lucky enough to end up on the stage… all in the name of the power of the Holy Spirit. These public exhibitions of mass hysteria are called ‘ministries’ or ‘crusades’ and this too is a very powerful use of language that enhances the expectation and  experience.
     
    Hanna, this comes from a qualified hypnotist. Shocking ! It seems that we have been “taken-for–ride”.
    I believe that many Churches are NOT doing their job. They prefer to give you a good “flesh” experience rather than to equip the saints with the Word of God. 
    The result ? 
    Parable of the Sower : Mark 4:18-19  Still others are like the seeds sown among the thornbushes. These are the people who hear the word, but the worries of life, the deceitful pleasures of wealth, and the desires for other things come in and choke the word so that it can’t produce a crop.
     
    I personally see more and more churches moving away from the teaching on Word of God towards a more “feel good” gathering.
     
    I pray that you will begin to understand the scale of deception that is currently happening and how important is for us to really study the Word of God. How else can we use the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. 
     
    Blessings
     
    Eph 5:10 -11  Determine what pleases the Lord,  and have nothing to do with the unfruitful works of darkness. Instead, expose them for what they are.

  59. Barb Says:

    Psalms 105.15 states very clearly
    “do not touch My anointed ones,
    And do My prophets no harm”

    I am grateful for the men and women, apostles and prophets who bring The Word and are the hands and feet of Jesus.  I want to be like Jesus, I want to love like Jesus.

  60. John B Says:

    I’ve been bothered for some time by the teachings of one particular individual. I won’t name him because it’s simply not relevant here, but suffice to say whenever his name has come up it’s been associated with a church or an individual that has gone from being very good to being, well, a bit weird.

    The reason I don’t name him is simple. I can’t see his fruit. Jesus told us that we would know a false prophet by their fruit, and since this particular person is thousands of miles from me the best I can ever hope to see is either a stage-managed performance where I see what he wants me to see, or a selection of Bad Things About the person that for all I know are cherry-picked and taken out of context.

    So on that basis when I hear about great things happening in a church thousands of miles away I’m most inclined to ignore it. If God is moving powerfully there, good luck to them. If it’s all a fake and none of the miracles are genuine, God will judge. If the same name keeps cropping up in places that have started to lose the plot I’ll look at their teachings and test them against Scripture.

    Interestingly a couple of times I’ve been presented with a teaching that seems to quote Scripture to support itself but has left me with an uneasy feeling. When that happens I’ve found the thing to do is go back to the Scripture but read the context around the verses, as it’s easy to prove all sorts of silly theories if you’re willing to cherry-pick verses and ignore the context. It’s no great surprise when I see similar names behind these teachings.

  61. John B Says:

    Barb, the fact Ps 105:15 tells us not to touch God’s anointed ones doesn’t mean that anyone who claims to be anointed is automatically covered by that verse. In theory, if the devil took on a physical form and walked into a church (clearly identifiable, complete with horns and pitchfork), claimed to be anointed by God and quoted that verse, wouldn’t you still want people to reject him and what he taught?

  62. Brent Says:

    Hello Barb,
     Yes I agree with the verses you bring up , however define a prophet of GOD?
    If they prophecy falsehoods then you no longer need to listen to them. Many that claim to be prophets in this day and age simply are not. We are to test all things against the scripture. If what the person claiming to be a prophet or in many cases apostles speaks is false, then you know they do not speak for GOD Also we all have equal access to our great God and Saviour via the shed blood of Jesus so do not need someone else to tell us. This is where the danger lies in many areas of the NAR movement.
     Test all things and hold fast to those that are good. I for one have experienced this movement first hand and if there is anything you wish to discuss please let me know.

     I resigned a position when I examined all the teachings very closely and found the foundations that they taught were false. Because of that all persons that we had called brothers and sisters in the Lord before no longer speak to myself or family. Also many were mislead to believe that I was terminated, as a matter of fact I spoke to the person that claims he is an apostle and asked him to show me in the scripture the answers to the questions I brought up but they could not, many months later I learned that  I WAS FIRED was what people had been told, this is a lie.
     Do I hold anger towards them? no, not at all and I pray for them always that God would have mercy and lead them to the truth.

    blessings

  63. Brent Says:

    Of note are some teachings that I encountered within a N.A.R. type church. Of special interest is the fact that not until the church was bringing in a substantial amount of monies did these teachings really come to the forefront.

    1.)  The church is built upon the foundation of Apostles and Prophets.
         Eph: 2:20 the verse actually says the following
      And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief    corner stone;
     What we really need to pay attention to is what the bible says, It says ” …. the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets…..” I put the highlights in so you can see that it’s not apostles and prophets but the!!!!, no one can deny that what Paul means is the original apostles and probably the prophets in reference to the O.T. prophets although you could argue the prophets that were in the early church. No where does it say we are to tear down a foundation and build it again on new apostles and prophets. This is a grievous error and if we do not examine closely what is taught anyone of us can be taken in with it.

    2.) One of the favourites is the following misuse of Acts 4:35 where it says they laid everything at the apostles feet, then follow that quickly with ” this is how the church ministry began and by giving it all to the apostels the apostles were then able to go out into the world” or something along those lines.
    How about we read the entire verse and a few before and after.

    Acts 4: 34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,  
     
    Acts 4:35 And laid them down at the apostles’ feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

    Once again the highlights are of my making, but the point is all the finances that were brought to be laid down was then used for what??? well according to the verses it was used to ensure that all the disciples ( reach church, Christians, the body) had their needs met, not just given to a ministry to further that ministry.

    3.) Another great misquote that I heard was the following. ” If you want to have a real first century type church you need to in the teaching of an apostle”….. This in itself is scary especially when all other around you just sit there and say amen without examining the bible . The verse used was the following. 
    Acts 2:42 And they continued steadfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and in prayers.

    take note of the fact it was the apostles doctrine ( teaching). this would refer to the original not someone who claims apostleship now.
     
    The above are just a few of the errors encountered and I would be happy to assist in any way I can. My greatest concern is that we as Christians seem to be sorely lacking in a good understanding of our foundational truths with regards to why we believe what we believe.

    May the Great God and our Saviour continue to bless all as they pursue the truth.

    Brent

  64. Joe Says:

    I’ll add this blog to my list of “Favorite Pharisee Blogs” 

    2 Timothy 3:1-5 ESV / 22 helpful votes
    But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people.

  65. Brent Says:

    Hello Joe,
    I am curious as to why you say ” I will add this to my list of Favorite Pharisee Blogs?
     I am sure that some people can sound hurt and angry with what they  have experienced and that is understandable.
     My personal experience from a church that is N.A.R. for sure could have caused hurt but in reality I am very thankful since it forced me to search the scripture in depth to see if what was taught aligned itself with the Bible. After much study and examination I had to conclude that no it does not. Something that I think anyone leaving a church after experiencing the things that are common in these types of fellowships needs to guard against is that they do not discard the baby with the bathwater so to speak.
     We know without a doubt that once we genuinely give our lives to Christ and decide to follow him we have signed ourselves up for front line service in an army that is not sitting back but in the thick of things so to speak. The verse Joe Quotes ( 2 Timothy 3:1-5) is powerful and something we all need to be aware of. 
     To get back to my point is we are in a spiritual battle and in order to be successful soldiers need to become skilled in the weapons that we have at our disposal , the main one is of course the word , which is the sword of the spirit.
     I for one believe that yes we do have apostles in our midst , however I am not sure if I have ever met one. The apostles that we see in news and media and many claim that they are true apostles seem more concerned with building wealth and power structures for themselves. From what I can find out about the apostles in the early church or those that had apostolic type ministries they were more concerned about building up the members of the body so that they could walk in confidence of knowing the scripture, who Jesus was and is, and how to correctly divide ( interpret ) the word of God.
     When you take a look at 2 timothy it’s very interesting that we are told to study, and show ourselves approved
    2Ti 2:15  Study earnestly to present yourself approved to God, a workman that does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of Truth.
     When it speaks of rightly dividing it means to dissect, or to interpret correctly.
     We also know that we have a couple of places where we are given the requirements for foundational apostles. A foundational apostle and the words they speak would be equal to scripture, that is not possible.
     Lets look at a couple of places I can think of right off hand

    1.) when the original apostles were replacing Judas what was the requirements??

     Act 1:21  Therefore, it is right that one of these men who have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus came in and went out among us, 
    Act 1:22  beginning from the baptism of John to that same day that He was taken up from us, to become a witness with us of His resurrection. 
    Act 1:23  And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias. 
     IN THE ABOVE VERSES WE SEE WHAT?
     That the requirement was someone who actually was with them during the time Jesus walked upon the earth , so that does away with anyone from this day and age having been there and thereby being a so called foundation type apostle.

    2.) What did Jesus himself commend the church of Ephesus about in Revelation?

      Rev 2:2  I know your works and your labor and your patience, and how you cannot bear those who are evil. And you tried those pretending to be apostles, and are not, and have found them liars. 

      The word tried means test as we know , so what was the test I wonder? As I say I am not a Theologian or great scholar but it would appear to me that this was in the early part of the church and there were some that were trying to say they were equal to the apostles and found out to be liars.

     We are told to test all things and Paul commended the bereans for how they examined all he taught as we know in Acts 17
      Act 17:11  And these were more noble than those of Thessalonica, in that they received the Word with all readiness of mind and searched the Scriptures daily to see if those things were so. 
      WE ARE TOLD THEY RECEIVED the word with all readiness of mind but also they searched everything daily to see ( test) if what he was teaching was so.

    Blessings to all and remember to always examine everything closely to see if what you are being taught is true or not. We are responsible for what we believe and learn so no leader should have any issue with you examining it.
     I do not expect anyone to just accept what I say or anyone else for that matter, I fully expect them to examine the scripture to see for themselves.

  66. Robin Says:

    I wonder about Jane Hansen, leader of the Aglow movement.  I don’t hear much about them; but i think she/they are very much a part of the NAR movement.  The Aglow conferences feature many of the prominant names listed above.

  67. Kathryn Says:

    I think you should add Barbara Yoder’s name to the list.  She calls herself an apostle, after she called herself a prophetess.  Taken from her website:  ” Barbara J. Yoder is the founding apostle and senior pastor of Shekinah Regional Apostolic Center, a racially and culturally diverse church in Ann Arbor, Michigan. She serves on several boards of ministry nationally. Barbara leads Breakthrough Apostolic Ministries Network (BAMN) a network of pastors, ministry leaders and marketplace leaders. She travels extensively as a national and international speaker, ministering at various conferences and churches. She is the author of 5 books; has contributed to the Women of Destiny Bible and has been featured on the cover of Charisma magazine as one of the most influential women leaders in the church today.  

    APOSTOLIC CONNECTIONS

    Ministry Today Magazine, Advisory Board

     

    Serving on the Board of Governors of Christian International under the direction of Bishop Bill Hamon.

    Member of Eagles’ Vision Apostolic Team led by Drs. Peter and Doris Wagner.

    Michigan State Coordinator Global Apostolic Prayer Network under Dr. Peter Wagner and Dr. Chuck Pierce.

    International Coalition of Apostolic Leaders, National Council

    Member of the core faculty for Wagner Leadership Institute.

    Member of the International Coalition of Apostles under the direction of Dr. Peter Wagner

     Barbara has a passion to see the apostolic church restored (Acts 15:16-17) which will cause a harvest to erupt in cities, regions, nations, as well as the kingdom of God to manifest in every sector of society. She is known for her cutting edge apostolic breakthrough anointing infused with prophetic revelation. ” End quote.

    Chuck Pierce, Dutch Sheets, Bill Hamon along with many other prominent NAR ministers have spoken at conferences held at her church.

  68. pharisee Says:

    Doing a great job spreading the love of Jesus —- except that Jesus came to stop people like you.

    BTW, you don’t have to be a Bible scholar to read that Jesus said to do what He did but I did enjoy the mental gymnastics you guys go through to support cessationism, it’s cute but sad.

  69. Jean Says:

    @ Pharisee

    These “gifts” of the  NAR teachers/preachers/prophets/apostles are not true.
    According to the Bible a true healing from God will be real and verifiable. (Read Lev 13: 1-18 & Luke 5:12-14)  The NAR folk can not produce ONE medical certificate to prove/vindicate one of their so called healings.
    According to the Bible a TRUE prophet’s prophesy will always be 100% accurate.(Read Deut 18:20-22) These NAR Prophets can’t show you ONE true prophecy that came true word for word in it’s entirety.

    According to the Bible we are not supposed to become rich from giving prophecies and selling teachings (Read Mic 3:9-11; John2:14-16  & 2 Cor 2:17)  
    These NAR people LOVE taking your cash in return for a healing/prophesy or teaching.

    Because of these NAR teachers/preachers/prophets/apostles, i have my Parents and my brothers on their way to HELL. They are ignorantly following these people’s teachings and have a fake peace. They are proud and also refuse to examine themselves and their beliefs. I have been “cast out” of the family fold because i do not want to follow these false teachers and attend their churches.

    Pharisee, how would you react/feel when a loved ones is being lead to his death by another person who is constantly influencing your loved ones to keep going on this road leading to hell ?
    Would you not warn your loved ones and others as well ?

  70. sean Says:

    What do you think of Todd White?  His demeanor and his many “free” sessions on YouTube have my in-laws all excited fir the “Bethel shenanigans”.  My wife comes from charismatic background and Teen Challenge (David Wilkerson) helped her to see Christ over drug abuse.  Radical delivery.  Much like Todd White.  But I see him up there with Dan Mohler and Bob Hazlett and Bill Johnson and Patricia King.  You know.  Guilty by association

  71. Steven Says:

    Some of my favorite people are on this list. Also I few I haven’t heard of. I’ll work on checking them out. Thanks.

  72. Jason Says:

    Wow you guys are incredible!!! Jean wow you have no idea mate, i’m not surprised your own family have put you aside, Jesus also handed many over to satan that woiuld not come to the truth, most of the religous leaders of his day fell in that catagory because they refuswd to let go of there own beliefs and follow Jesus. You guys sit back and Judge some of Jesus most influential teachers of his truths today, the very ones He has Chosen to use to restore the Body of Christ. It will never effect any of these men and woman but I would not like to be in your shoes when you come to the end of your days and stand face to face with Jesus and His father God. You need to stop judging everyone around you and start looking at yourselves. Jonathan Welton is in my eyes one of the greatest teacher of today, through his teaching alone I have found true freedom and life abundantly. Ps Jean, your family will not be going to hell mate, neither will you if you believe in Jesus, but we will ALL be judged in the final Judgement.

  73. Al Says:

    Look up (Apostle) Jane Hansen-Hoyt

  74. kadri-liisa Says:

    I think Thamo Naidoo http://www.thamonaidoo.com and Dr.Steve Everett http://www.drstepheneverett.com should be in that list. Additionally to apostles prophets stuff they have weird end time theology like almost all happened in 1st century and there is not wedding of lamb. Because of that i started to research how NAR inteprets the end times.

  75. bree Says:

    Todd white is a false healer and teacher just like everyone on the list. For all of you who have loyalty o the likes of bill johnson, let me tell you something he preaches. He has put this in his books and taught it in his pulpit. He believes Jesus wasn’t God in the flesh on earth until he was crucified and taken to hell. Then Jesus was born again. If this is alright with you who hold these people at high regards I think you should repent and pray these wolves repent as well. I’m sorry if it sounds harsh, but I have to tell you when a pastor like bill johnson encourages his young followers to lay on graves and suck out the spirit left behind, that should bother you. Research yourselves, it is everywhere.

  76. Nathan Says:

    BREE – Can you provide some links to the information you are stating about Todd White and Bill Johnson? I think it would really help people if they knew where to look for more information about these leaders. Like you mentioned that Bill Johnson makes these claims in his books. Can you provide a reference point like chapter and page? That would be really helpful too. Thanks!

  77. Heather Says:

    You wrote: “Prophet Lou Engle, co-founder of TheCall and member of the leadership team at IHOP. By organizing prayer and fasting rallies in stadiums across the United States, Engle has become a driving force for conservative political causes, such as laws opposing abortion and same-sex marriage.”

    I don’t get what’s so bad about prayer and fasting. I don’t understand what so bad about getting involved in politics. I mean, if Christians had been doing those things all along, maybe our country wouldn’t be in such a sad state of affairs now.

    I don’t know who to believe. These so-called prophets and apostles are doing good things and you’re saying they’re doing bad things. I’ve been totally freaked out all morning after reading these things and don’t know who I can trust anymore.

  78. Vicky Says:

    Heather,

    There is no need to freak out over this per se, but we know that the bible is the standard that God left for us to discern with.

    Most of these apostles and prophets have made statements and written books or done interviews.  Do some searching as to if there views and what they teach is truly biblical.  That will tell you all you need to know.

    The Word tells us that there will be wolves that come in sheep’s clothing, so there will be people who pretend to be Christian and pretend to be wonderful people that will lead people astray.  So no matter how nice someone seems or if the things they do seem nice, our discernment always needs to come back to the Bible, the Word of God.
    In the right sidebar towards the top of the page is a link to CARM-Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry which is a ministry devoted to what is in the bible and whether teachers/preachers are teaching sound biblical teachings. 

    Good Luck to you.  Stay in the Word.

  79. Richard R Says:

    One of the things I find so interesting, is how many of the people posting here think the NAR is some “new” move or restoration of truth. In the 1940′s, the Latter Rain Movement swept through the churches in the denomination with which I was once affiliated. Gold dust from Heaven, apostles and prophets, new revelations on par (or supplanting) Scripture, holy oil appearing in the palms of hands, etc, were all the rage. The LRM almost took over the denomination – and nearly our congregation – until a few wise men stood up and asked when God had become theologically schizophrenic and Christ became so weak and disengaged as to let His Church “lose” vital doctrines. They demanded clear Biblical evidence for all that was being said and done. The LRM soon left for more theologically void ground, but not after devastating churches and weak-minded saints. 

    NAR is the same spiritism as the LRM. Technology is exponentially spreading this error, but the truth of God’s Word will win the day. Keep the faith and keep up the good work here. I’ll be coming back regularly.

  80. Jurgen Says:

    I get so turned off by this(!) – apostle, prophet, teacher are óffices and nót titles!  Apostle this and this, prophet this and this – not to talk of their many useless so called doctorates that they they got from a lucky packet.

  81. Joe Says:

    2 years later and the hate keeps going lol

    silly silly pharisees and their lack of miracles. it’s ironic that you can’t help but criticize everyone yet Christ criticized only the pharisees. Here’s a clue, if your faith is causing you to blame and judge then you’re doing it wrong.

  82. Ian Says:

    Yeah but the pharisees WERE  the ones who were the false teachers in Jesus’ day,  whom he did not refrain from publicly correcting in order to lovingly protect the sheep from the slaughter. The pharisees were the ones  to whom the masses of wandering sheep poured out their life substance giving their alms and tithes to this  powerless religious system composed of scribes and pharisees.  The alms and tithes made religious rulers of Jesus’ day rich (just as they do  modern-day self-purported spiritual leaders) and though they knew the OT scriptures backwards and forward they made void of the Word of God.  Just as the false NAR and WOF teachers lead the sheep astray with their grossly inaccurate prophets and false healers who can’t medically verify one actual miracle.  (This of course does not invalidate the real).

  83. Joe Says:

    There are many medical miracles that have been proven. A pastor in Maryland, that I’ll be seeing next week, was cured of MS. It was substantiated to the point that his insurance company sued him for faking his MS. The judge threw the suit out because for years the company’s own tests proved he had it. Even the judge said that the man was somehow healed and the company can’t sue him for getting healed.

    It doesn’t matter. Let those with eyes see and those with ears hear. Repent for the hatred in your heart. Jesus’ most important command was to love not to hate. Have you even been to a Holy Spirit meeting to see what happens? The fruit is real my brother. I came from a cessationist background and then I saw it for myself. Yes, there are many false teachers and if you really want to expose them then look at preaching on any given Sunday in any given town. If you really want to expose frauds then maybe ban preaching, bad preaching is more common than false teachers and leads many more astray. However, there are good and Godly teachers doing what Jesus did and what Jesus said to do. Ask Jesus to examine your heart.

    Either way, this website is really an American website and a Western issue. There are many performing healing in Jesus’ name around the world. Their fruit is good, their fruit is not hate and malice spread on a website behind the comfort of a computer. Their work is done in dangerous countries not in climate controlled churches with flavored coffees, to discuss what those ‘silly charismatics’ are doing. Some of them make mistakes and there is grace for them as there is grace for you and I. But do something more than make a case for knowledge without works and action without fruit. The fruit here promotes hatred within the body. Who is wrong in God’s eyes, the person that earnestly prays for healing of a child or the one that criticizes them for doing it? This blog is like the pharisees trying to criticize God for healing on the Sabbath. Who are the powerless religious in modern times? Those that try to imitate Jesus or those that memorize scriptures with no love to show for all their knowledge seeking? Do you think Jesus would start a blog criticizing people? Or would he be in the streets ministering to the poor, sick and unwanted? Jesus would be ministering to a Syrian refugee, would you? Do you really think the devil is walking around the third world healing people in Jesus’ name? Or perhaps, maybe, it’s the Holy Spirit ministering to those without hope.

    Get out of the bubble brother, wake up, the Bible is REAL, Jesus is REAL and the Holy Spirit is real and alive and moving, Jesus never said the gifts are over, man said it, man interpreted it. I follow Jesus, I do not follow man and his ways.

  84. JP Says:

    This quote by Charles Spurgeon helped me understand why this current deception in the church is so far reaching and why so many have fallen for it.

    “Discernment is not knowing the difference between right and wrong. It is knowing the difference between right and almost right.”
    —C.H. Spurgeon

    We have a problem of biblical illiteracy among professing Christians. There are many polls and percentages out there claiming different degrees of bible readership. On average they hover around 20-25% claiming they read the bible on a regular basis. Some percentages were as low as 12-16%. This is a startling fact and one of the main reasons so many are falling for this “New thing”.  How can we discern anything as true or false if we don’t first start with understanding the truth that has already been revealed in the Bible?
    “Experience” or feeling something does not make it truth! If it does not line up with the Word of God in context, it is not true! The people listed on this blog as up and coming leaders in the NAR movement have been proven wrong in that what they speak or say does not line up with the truth of scripture. It does not matter what they have experienced or seen or how nice they are! They are teaching heresy! Please test everything that they say against a reliable translation of God’s Word (in context). Start your journey to truth by reading your bible on a regular basis. I am amazed at how much discernment I have gained by simply reading the bible! It has opened my eyes to this current deception invading our churches and has breathed new life into my relationship with God. I have a better understanding and more truthful picture of who He is because of reading His Word.

  85. Friend in Christ Says:

    Holly,

    I am new to your site as I found it during my research on Jonathan Welton after some friends began discussing him and his videos with much enthusiasm.  I had never heard of NAR but after spending now 3 days continuing my research, I am alarmed at what I am finding out about the movement and the many teachers associated with it.  Thank you for being a dedicated watchman!

    But, my reason for my comment is, that as I was reading through the comments above on this particular post of yours, I was finding a common pattern.  There are two groups of people commenting here with two very distinct tones.  There are the people who are are in agreement with your research, often filled with gratitude but all equally expressing concern for the NAR movement and their teachings, especially from those who have left (or been “fired” from) the ministry.  The other group, those in opposition to your list take on tones of anger and downright nastiness, which I find quite interesting since they profess that they want to love and be like Jesus.  It’s as if they can’t handle someone disagreeing with them and throw a fit about it.  It’s perfectly fine to disagree, but it’s not Christlike to throw a tantrum.

    Wouldn’t it be nice if both sides could actually have some good dialogue about it?  ”Tell me, how do you explain that verse supporting your position?” or “Where in the Bible does it say…”   But, I imagine that will never happen because it appears that NAR followers don’t want to have their beliefs questioned, perhaps because they can’t support them.  They just call anyone who objects “haters.” For example, I read NAR Apostle Jonathan Welton’s first chapter of Raptureless and found that he misused the Greek meanings of some words in passages to support his ideology (whether there is a rapture event is irrelevant here). I wrote a review for anyone wishing to read what I have found.  I just wish people would do their research instead of just blindly following those who perform signs or wonders because it sounds or feels good.  

    I read a good book years ago by Jim Cymbala titled, “Fresh Wind, Fresh Fire” in which he wrote that churches who make a circus out of the gifts of the Holy Spirit are just as sinful as churches denying the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

    Thank you for your website.  I will be visiting often.
    Friend in Christ

  86. Friend in Christ Says:

    By the way, my review of Welton’s first chapter is on Amazon.

  87. Ian Says:

    To Joe:  yes, I love the real faith of Jesus of Nazareth, and I  certainly do not deny that the gifts of the Spirit are for today, including healing.  You have missed the whole gist of what I was trying to communicate to you. Get out of the bubble of the counterfeit Brother, that is only leading up to the Great Lie and ultimately the mark of the Beast.  Great deception is evident by the pro NAR posts on this site.  It is very telling of the age in which the church is extant. 

    If a Brother or Sister is in the midst of a fire, I am going to do everything in my power to help such a one, to save such a one.  Is that not loving?  No, to you it is Pharisaical.

  88. Ella Gamberi Says:

    Here in Australia there is a group of ‘prophets’ who have set themselves up as the Australian Prophetic Council. The co-ordinators of this group are Katherine and Tom Ruonala. I think ‘Apostle’ Katherine has already been mentioned on this site.

    I have no trouble with the gifts of the spirit, but I am deeply offended that a group of unknown people,  can set themselves up as an authority on what passes for true prophecy in the church in my country.  Only the Holy Spirit can give discernment and I certainly am not going to wait on a bunch of nobodys to tell me what is right and what isn’t.  Gathering from the ‘prophecies’ of the people on this council, which are generally of the fluffy feel-good type, they will be coming down fairly hard on anything that doesn’t give others a positive vibe.  In other words, anything about the judgement of God, repentance, sin or the blood of Jesus I would imagine would immediately be considered too harsh and therefore not legitimate.

    Is the Holy Spirit not doing a good enough job now?  We need ‘prophets’ to tell us when he is speaking?  This, and I speak from experience, is one of the stepping stones to cultism.

  89. Gareth Says:

    what about DAN Molher and Todd white?. Though they are not officially NAR I think they are ones to watch. They move in the NAR circles and seem to have a kingdom now , manes fest sons approach.

  90. Mary Says:

    How about the Apostles of The Rock churches scattered throughout the United States?

  91. Stephen Says:

    Many of the comments I’ve read here remind me of political commentary, speech filled with convenient labels that are specifically intended to convey negative associations and place people in “the enemy’s camp.” Sounds as if many of the writers are unable to speak without using labels filled with invective ie, “hyper-charismatics,” “NAR,” “Baptists,” etc. I feel like I’m reading the spiritual equivalent of a Bill O’Reilly commentary. Would make a great Saturday Night Live Sketch right along with the Church Lady. This kind of dialogue is why teens, 20 & 30 somethings, folks struggling with life-crushing problems are rejecting the church. If this is Christianity I want no part of it.

  92. James Says:

    “Johnson has convinced many evangelicals that all Christians should perform miracles…”

    So these people who are ‘convinced’ and step out in faith and see miracles happen, are actually not seeing miracles? What are they seeing then? Because if they are, then maybe Bill’s actually onto something?

    Jesus did say that “these signs will follow those who believe…”

    But then again, maybe I’m just one of those who’ve been blinded by some fanatical movement that takes God by his word, believing that all he wants is those who believe to simply put themselves in positions for him to move.

  93. Jordan Says:

    Thank you Holly. I discovered your website today and I am encouraged regarding the approach you take to issues. I love the Church and like others on this Blog, desire to see sound doctrine, discernment and love for one another flourish in the age approaching and is now upon us, where we will witness, “the love of many will grow cold.” 

    In the late 1990′s, Peter Wagner spoke at the Canberra (Australia) Convention Centre. Leaders kept reaffirming his credibility and the need for all Christians to attend. I attended. After 60 seconds, the words antichrist echoed in my Spirit and I could not tolerate the demonic spirit I sensed that was issuing out from behind his words. The Holy Spirit had me leaving immediately. I seriously wondered why no one could “see” what I saw so convincingly. I parked that experience until in 2000 I began to question many international ministries with which local leadership desired affiliation.

    Since 2000, I have had to uncover deception that I cannot go into for the sake of time and space; suffice it to say however, that many do not possess discernment for lack of prayer and time in God’s word. Additionally, pride and the grab for supernatural power alerted me to those networked groups who would inevitably succumb to false NAR doctrine.

    Four years prior to my [dramatic] salvation, I read Colossians 2:8 in the local newspaper. I had never attended Sunday School, never been privy to a Scripture in Schools Program and never knew nor heard a Christian speak about God until I was 27. However, when I read that one Scripture in 1986, I had no idea that Colossians was part of the Bible, but rather thought ‘Colossians’ was the wisest man I ever had the privilege to read. So, I memorised Colossians 2:8 as if my life depended upon it. That Scripture offered a warning that I could only sense as a child growing up in a dark and hostile world. I understand now that God had planted a seed. The hunger for truth and righteousness has not since waned and the fervour continues unhindered to this day.

    Please continue to warn the flock, as you do, evidenced with love, wisdom and grace. I look forward to revisiting your site. I enjoyed the Brain Stoppers material today and appreciate your insights. The Lord bless you abundantly for every good work and may the hearts that seek to worship Him in Spirit and in truth also be satisfied in Him. Grace and peace to you.

  94. thunderbird Says:

    I just discovered this site today. I had never even heard of NAR until a month or so ago. I was brought up Baptist, but experienced a lot of trauma in my life, including an abusive ex-husband who train-wrecked my life, years of single parenting w three kids, the cancer death of my second husband, etc. So, I believed there was more power than I was being taught in my baptist church and I left it when I was about 38. After the death of my husband when I was 46, 9 years ago, I got into a non-denominational church where I grew by leaps and bounds. I learned about the importance of forgiveness and a lot of other things. I also learned how to cast out devils…. but I never spoke in tongues. I went to healing lines many times, but I never got healed. Then I started following up on some of the things Henry Wright taught and started to get a little breakthru with my depression and other issues. In my journey I encountered quite a LOT OF WEIRD THINGS. I no longer go to healing lines. I am seeking Gods face rather than his hand. I used to tithe, but now, if I was tithing, I would not be able to pay my mortgage. I attend a megachurch in Southlake Texas, which as I say, I have loved and grown in. But some things have started to bother me about it, and I do see some of this NAR stuff within. I read my Bible. I got a lot of Bible growing up too, my dad was a Baptist minister. I started looking at the Bill Johnson and Rick Joyner stuff, and all that weirdness with the grave sucking, and fire tunnels, and the interviews of the Bethel teens on the streets sounding like they were on Acid. I read a lot of testimony of people who had come out of it, and was very concerned over a friend going INTO it. Listening to those men, Joyner and Johnson, speak, I got a very creepy feeling in my spirit. I pray for the discernment of the Holy Spirit every day. There is so much deception. A friend of mine goes to Copelands church, just loves him. My spirit rises up within me screaming, when I just see him on TV, but she kept asking me to go to a service with her. I did. And I just wanted to run screaming from the place, the heaviness coming off him nearly smothered me. His eyes chill my very soul. Another friend was going over here to Chuck Pierce’s church and wanted me to come, i visited a few times, and I was soooo uncomfortable there. I would never watch TBN….. because the Crouch’s did not sit well with my spirit, and most of the guests or shows they had on there made me uncomfortable as well. My journey is long and complicated, but I assure you, I do not want to be deceived, I only want to follow the LORD JESUS CHRIST. I do not want to be deceived by any man. As I pray for discernment I believe the Holy Spirit gives it. People may throw fiery darts of hate at me, because I don’t like Copeland and Hinn and all those guys on  your list. What I see is people following A MAN and not God’s Word. I see people following FEEL GOOD. I see people being led by their emotions and seeking Gods hand and not his face. Feelings will lead you astray. How many of us women were led into the ditches of hell by an evil man who spoke charming words????  I see many of these blind followers refusing to hear any thing against their religious idols, no matter what heresy they preach that’s not in the Bible. Yes, indeed, someone can get saved in Copeland’s church. But that doesnt mean his doctrine is right. Kenneth Hagin himself got on Copeland and his compatriots’ case when Hagin wrote the book THE MIDAS TOUCH and told them all to quit preaching greed. I have greatly enjoyed my pastor and learned much in my church. But if some of their doctrine is false, I WANT God to show me. And I will go elsewhere if God leads me. I follow GOD and not a man. A man can fall. And I DO trust the discernment of the Spirit. I have not always discerned the presence of evil, but when I did discern it, I trusted the discernment and avoided the teaching or the teacher.  God has shown me many errors, I have had to give up many things that God showed me were not Biblical.  My JESUS CALLING devotional was one of them—-and WOW didn’t hearing all those love stories from Jesus make a lonely widowed woman whose kids had abandoned her feel awesome…..until they learned the woman who wrote it was CHANNELING. I could go on all day.. but I will end in saying that instead of judgementally screeching about TOUCHING GODS ANOINTED, these people need to start praying for DISCERNMENT….. and realize that many of these mere men whom they FEEL are God’s anointed simply are NOT….. and if they are NOT, then we are to expose them as wolves, are we not? And I never saw anything on this blog as advocating CESSATIONALISM…. but I do see an urge to avoid SENSATIONALISM. I will still cast out devils…… and read my Word… and pray for the sick. And I will continue to ask for spiritual discernment!!!

  95. Bunny D. Says:

    Wow! Today  was introduced to your blog and would just like to add a few comments. We have been part of and followed most of the men mentioned on is list, something of which I am not proud. As relatively new believers, our (mine & my husband’s)hearts were and are to know Jesus, read His Word and obey what we read. Thats where we got into ‘trouble’. If we saw something in Scripture (eg: miracles of healing, raising the dead, et al) we asked our pastor how could we get this happening in our (then) Baptist church. Exit: RIGHT! Our next encounter was in charismatic circles where we were told we didn’t need to read the Bible so much when we questioned teachings that we COULD NOT find in Scripture. Exit LEFT. We continued to be like the  Bereans and started meeting with other believers who just wanted to follow Jesus and His Word. That went great until someone read another ‘book’ which was NOT Scripturally base but was a man’s opinion. When we pleaded with this little flock of about 20 to let the Bible be our final authority in all matters of faith and practice, we were acused of being TOO BIBLICAL! Exit: CENTER! And that’s my caution to  true believer in THE Lord Jesus Christ: Let Scripture, preferably the KJV, be your final authority in everything you do and believe. Read the Bible as if your life depends on it, because it does. Trust Jesus Christ and no one else as Scrpture says: “let God be true and every man a liar…” Romans 3:4.  Today, almost 40 years later, we still love Jesus and His Word and attend no ‘church’. We are lead to pray for, witness to, give to and love on folks everyday and if God chooses to allow signs to follow,  we rejoice in The Lord. We are nobodies and have no following but are following hard after our Saviour. He will never let you down!!! Men will…Jesus Christ will not…EVER.

  96. Jane Says:

    I would watch the new kid on the block, Nick Hall

  97. sylvia Says:

    Christ Jesus said that the church was His. He said that helps gates will not prevail against it. He said that He would stand before the Father with all the children He had been given , not losing one of them. He said that nothing and no one could snatch from His hand even one who was His.
    In the end times, people will heap to themselves false teachers, preachers, prophets, etc etc,. But it is because God has ordained it to be so. Soon the end will come. Stay safe in the arms of love. Thanks

  98. Jim Says:

    Sylvia, God hasnt ordained the end times to be full of false prophets and false teachers, otherwise he’s the one we should blame for all this mess. It’s just like saying he’s ordained sin and sickness. Instead he foresaw what the end times would be like and shared that with us to warn us and protect us. Subtle I know, but it’s important to remember that although God’s in charge, he isnt controlling or ordaining our every move. Bless you. :)

  99. Jeri Labell Says:

    I have a friend who invited me to join her on a web course….  I first said yes, trusting her maturity,  but when I went online to find out who James Goll is , red flags all over the place.  It is ironic the course title is Discern!      
     I am a missionary and have been out of the loop on the who’s  who.           I recently had to break away from my home church in Canada as they have created a new denomination Via Apolistica, now  gone  emergent, nar-ish. So many friends are deceived.    1 Peter 4:17  LORD have mercy!
     

  100. John P. Says:

    I’m a new visitor to this website.  It seems to me from reading many of the comments, is that the great majority are probably Assembly of God church members or at least adhere to the AG theology; and that alone is the problem.  
    Most of the theological problems people have is rooted in the fact that they have been saturated all their lives with so much Charismatic/Pentecostal theology that is has ruined their ability to read the bible and just let it speak. 
    Just look at the what kind of “leaders” AG has produced!  A typical AG service includes speakers talking about tongues, miraculous healing, raising the dead, “speaking to your wallet”, the Rick Warren idiocy and of course God’s desire for all of us to be wealthy.  An ignorance of the scripture on the part of the hearers in these assemblies is the main reason for the success of these charlatan self proclaimed “prophets” and evil soothsayers.

    The AG and other similar Pentecostal and Charismatic theologies are just reaping what they’ve sown; and just wait, it can only get more ridiculous.

  101. Chris Says:

    Michael Brown?

  102. Jayson Says:

    What about Carlos Sarmiento? Apparently this guy was Benny Hinn’s youth minister turned head pastor of the Orlando House of Prayer. He seems to hold to the same teachings as those of the NAR as well. Any info on this guy?

  103. Catherine Wilson Says:

    what about pastor john carter of abundant life Christian center in syracuse New York? Adheres to word of faith theology, trained by Kenneth hagin at Rhema, identifies himself as operating in the offices of prophet,teacher,pastor…also reports having many of the spiritual gifts…hosts an annual Holy Spirit Conference each February…website is alcclife.org….church bookstore sells many of the Bethel and Joyce Meyer materials…signs,wonders and prosperity focused…he names a.r.bernard of Christian cultural center in NYC as his pastor…seems to be ever expanding his influence

  104. Cindy Says:

    Anyone know where Exponential (East)& Exponential ( West) stand with NAR/ dominionism?

  105. JUrgen Says:

    Well Catherine, the man you mentioned: “identifies himself as operating in the offices of prophet,teacher,pastor…also reports having many of the spiritual gifts…hosts an annual Holy Spirit Conference each February”.  Well bless his heart.  If you don’t believe is these things why don’t you just throw your Bible away?!  “And truly He gave some to be apostles, and some to be prophets, and some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers…” Eph 4:11.
    So many self-proclaimed sheriffs of truth and error, judgement and condemnation today, are born-again but nót Spirit filled – the glas has some water in it, but it is nót full.  They know NOTHING of the work and ministry of the Holy Spirit!

  106. Naomi Says:

    What about Shawn Bolz? He came onto our radar 1&1/2 years ago & is steadily gaining in influence. Raised up in IHOP, close buddies with Bill Johnson, David Crowder & (I think) Todd Bentley. He’s a “prophet” and is giving very accurate “words of knowledge & prophesy” much in the style of what psychics call cold readings – certainly unlike any true word my husband & I have heard (both have moved in Pentecostal circles for over 30 years). He has spoke out the first names of 3 of my friends’ children, so obviously is moving in some supernatural power, trouble is it appears to us to be divining spirits. Talks so fluffy new agey love, but deflects when you try & point him back to the Word. We think he moves similarly to how William Branham and Paul Cain did, and indeed there’s a direct connection there through IHOP. An interview on Sid Roth [almost anything goes! but useful sometimes for research] was very revealing, the one about his brother who died and the spiritual inheritance he “received” from him, and how we can all claim the destinies of babies that have been aborted (aka opening yourself to the demonic). Dangerous stuff!!

  107. Naomi Says:

    Sorry, that should read “spoken out the names of 3 of my friend’s children, got 3/3 right”….. so of course she & others can’t get enough of him.

  108. Naomi Says:

    Sorry, that should read “spoken out the names of 3 of my friend’s children, got 3/3 right”….. so of course she & others can’t get enough of him. Bill Johnson enlisted him to join him at Azusa Now, where you can see him calling out “words of knowledge” from his mobile. He’s being promoted internationally as a powerful prophetic voice. Trouble is we see no centrality of Jesus or fear of the Lord. Bill Johnson has said that he & Beni had been praying that God would raise up someone to move in powerful words of knowledge like he does, enough said.

  109. Doug Smith Says:

    Add Randy Bohlender to the list of NAR leaders infiltrating churches and infecting them with deception.

  110. Anonymous Says:

    Some more names to watch coming out of the panhandle of Florida…

    Damon Thompson
    Ken Malone
    Chris Mathis

  111. Susan Stone Says:

    Holly, I just discovered your website and was very happy to find it. Thank you for being a watchman for the body of Christ. I consider myself a watchman of sorts. I have been a Christian for 43 years and from the start I saw false doctrine and exposed it.  I always knew that it was no accident that I ended up right upclose and personal with all of these Teachers, Apostles, etc.  I had no one to go to but to the Lord and He has always been faithful to show me the truth. I was born again during a time of revival but was right in the middle of extreme Word-Faith movement. Ever hear of Hobart Freeman? Oh yea I visited his glory barn with my pastor and others. As far as naming who I’ve been around directly, I don’t know if I have enough space, but believe me I’ve been exposed to about everything. I just finished writing a paper On my own research of the way the church is heading and really Ive had no interest or a bad response, except for about three people. I read through all the posts and I think the reason that some are so offended is that they don’t know the Bible . I have followed it for years and done my own studying
    but those that first hear about it seem to think it’s being against the gifts. I am totally for the gifts of the spirit, but the teaching that is coming out of the NAR , Apostles -Prophets, word -Faith is just total heresy. I am so grieved that I know so many that are totally into it and aren’t open to the truth. I can’t find people who are open to the gifts but want sound doctrine. I see that the church is helping to  pave the way for the one world religious system. We have to be lovers of the truth and He will show us ! That I know for sure, but we must be willing to give up any ideas or teachers who are wrong. I think this false teaching is so serious and dangerous. Thank you for your labor of love, Holly . Susan.

  112. Holly Says:

    Thanks for your encouraging words, Susan.

  113. Greg Winterburn Says:

    Holly,
    This is the first time seeing your website.  Do you have any updated information on Heidi Baker Or David Hogan?  They both claim to have raised many people from the dead.  Both are embraced by Bill Johnson as legitemate.  Do you have any advice regarding their ministerial?
    Greg

  114. Anonymous Says:

    Greg Winterburn,

    When I was still involved in this movement, we would be told of many testimonies of Heidi and Roland Baker.

    Here is what disturbs me most about testimonies of Heidi raising the dead: she doesn’t have the Spirit of God Who alone does that. So she’s lying. But God alone raises the dead and He can use anyone He chooses. I do not believe He chooses Heidi. She received a spirit in a trance in Toronto and took it to Africa.

    Lord-willing, I’m willing to head a team to Africa to investigate Heidi’s testimonies of sending orphans into remote villages to preach her gospel. We were told in our state’s apostolic network that these orphans are routinely murdered by gunfire and resurrected still preaching. We were told that Heidi sends them out.

    I suspect the orphans are just dying and staying down if she indeed sends them. That is what I fear, for The Lord’s lambs. 

    Father, I pray that when Your Son spews out Laodiceans, that out of Your mouth also would come a brood of resurrected lambs they couldn’t swallow up.

  115. Brian Westcott Says:

    Yes, you definitely should add Shawn Bolz (only speaker I ever liked), Todd Bentley, John Crowder, Damon Thompson as ones to watch on your list.  (I noticed Damon Thompson was, shall we say, dropped like a bad habit from his association with The Ramp.)  Birds of a feather, flock together, am I right?

  116. Thomas Siegel Says:

    Hello Holly, I can see that the responses to your article go back a long time. I have been something of a heresy hunter myself and I agree with much of your assesment. The Bakers bear considerable watching. I agree with Greg’s post of Sept.1,2013 concerning Angus Buchan and disagree with Jean’s word about Angus being groomed by Kenneth Copeland. This is a slander in my view. Angus has a sincere heart and lives a humble life. His influence in itself can be corrupting as it can be for all high profile ministers, from Billy Graham to John MacArthur to you name them. One thing that burns me is that there is no light shining back on the traditional “leaders” in the evangelical realm. Pastor Jeffers 1st Baptist Dallas along with others who step out of the pure Gospel into the affairs of men garner criticism do they not? Just because they are teaching traditional views and doctrine doesn’t make them right. The mere elevation of the pastorate as the head of the assembly is in error but that is acceptable because where would the body be without a king like the other nations have?

  117. Lisa De Jager Says:

    I have friends who follow some guy named Graham Cooke and he looks pretty sketchy by his website (brilliantperspectives.com)….Lots of prophecy stuff. Tried to find out what exactly he believes but it’s so far away from any sort of truth that it’s hard to tell.

  118. Rebekah Says:

    I would add Ryan Lestrange, Jennifer Leclaire, Damon Thompson and Chris Mathis.

  119. Holly Says:

    Lisa, you may want to check out this post by Bruce Cooper: https://bcooper.wordpress.com/2017/07/30/graham-cookes-aglow-international-prophetic-message/ Bruce has critiqued the teachings of Graham Cooke over at this blog. Cooke is very influential.

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