The Big Lie: ‘Normal’ Christianity
Recently, a pastor I know received a provocative Christmas gift from a man in his church. It is a book titled Normal Christianity, written by prophet Jonathan Welton–a leader in the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) movement.
The message of Welton’s book is that the “normal” Christian lifestyle should be characterized by the performance of miracles: walking on water, calming storms, and even raising the dead.
Yet–contrary to the book’s title–Welton’s version of Christianity is anything but normal. Beyond promoting the supernatural phenomena we see in Scripture, he also argues that every Christian should develop magical powers that historically have been practiced by psychics, witches, and occultists.
The end result is that “normal” Christianity turns out to be an unholy marriage between Christianity and the occult.
Gifts of the Spirit?
Welton claims that all Christians should be reclaiming the following practices from the occult as part of their normal Christian walk.
- Reading auras: The ability to see invisible energy that surrounds a person and learning information about that person based on the color or form of his or her aura
- Clairvoyance: The ability to perceive extrasensory information about an object or event from the past, present, or future
- Clairaudience: The ability to hear sounds, music, and voices sent from the spirit realm
- Clairsentience: The ability to sense smells sent from the spirit realm, along with tastes and touches
- The use of power objects: Physical objects, such as crystals and amulets, that contain supernatural powers
Welton’s Misuse of Scripture
Jon Welton
Welton attempts to offer biblical support for these practices. Yet, the few verses he cites do not support the practices. For example, to support clairsentience–that is, sensing smells from the spirit realm–he cites 2 Corinthians 2:14:
“But thanks be to God, who always leads us in triumphal procession in Christ and through us spreads everywhere the fragrance of the knowledge of Him.”
It is painfully obvious that the apostle Paul is not speaking, in this verse, of a real fragrance. Rather, Paul uses the image of a fragrance to convey an idea: that idea being that God uses Christians to spread knowledge about Him wherever they go.
Yet, Welton misuses this verse to defend his claim that a sweet scent like perfume–sent from heaven–magically appears in many of his meetings.
Well, maybe Welton has smelled something sweet in his meetings. But his interpretation of Scripture stinks.
Shockingly Shameless
Welton doesn’t see himself as introducing occult practices in the church. On the contrary, he sees himself as a “rogue theologian” who is reclaiming practices that New Agers and occultists stole from Christianity in the first place (Normal Christianity, page 202).
Now that’s brazen!
Welton’s unabashed attempt to bring occult practices to the church reminds me of the man and woman who were openly practicing incest in the Corinthian church (1 Corinthians 5:1-13). The apostle Paul was shocked that they would be so shameless–even boasting about–engaging in such a blatant form of sexual immorality.
Jonathan Welton is not only seeking to bring occult practices to the church, but he is also audacious enough to claim that these practices represent “normal” Christianity. And, unfortunately, his is not a lone voice. A growing number of NAR apostles and prophets have begun openly pushing occult practices.
The Big Lie
Welton’s teachings may sound absurd. But that doesn’t mean people won’t believe them. Hitler had an infamous propaganda technique, known as the “Big Lie”–that is, if you tell a lie that is big enough then eventually people will believe it. Why? Because no one will believe that you would actually make up something so crazy.
And, sadly, Welton’s message has already convinced people–which can be seen by the fact that my pastor friend received a copy of his book.
So, what do you think the normal Christian life should look like?
I am an evangelical researcher of cults, sects, and new religious groups, such as the "New Apostolic Reformation" movement. I have a master's degree in Christian apologetics from Biola University in Southern California. I have written articles for numerous print and online publications, including Biola Magazine, the Christian Research Journal, and Apologetics Index.
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December 29th, 2012 at 1:08 pm
The “normal” Christian life should open to “fruit examining”. In other words, be concerned about people who have supernatural gifts but no fruit (found in Galatians). A TRUE Christian life is a changed life (let he who stole steal no more). It doen’t mean that you’re going to be perfect, but you’re striving remembering that sin has no power over you.
December 29th, 2012 at 1:29 pm
There is NOTHING normal about the new apostolic reformation…
December 29th, 2012 at 8:11 pm
Although I agree with you that God’s commands to avoid the occult practices named above is found throughout scripture, there are extraordinary circumstances where God has “outdone” the magicians, et al. (Moses with the 10 plagues in response to high level magic, extraordinary miracles in the life of Daniel as he was surrounded with highly skilled occultists). However, God’s miracles are not presented as part of everyday living nor as the result of understanding occult practices…they are His response to evil in opposition to His purposes. His miracles are turnkey events meant to show that He is God and give courage to those of us who follow Him.
Also, you might want to re-read the Hitler quote found in Mein Kampf. I read it about a year ago and the impression I got was that Hitler was not advocating using big lies himself, he was accusing others of using big lies to further their position. Hitler viewed himself as bringing in a new age of truth (and Hitler’s truth was fully embedded in the occult).
Involvement in what God has forbidden can never further His kingdom.
January 7th, 2013 at 2:24 am
The true mark of a Christian is loving GOD and His Son in spirit and in truth; and the second, loving your neighbor as yourself. 1 Corinthians chapter 13 emphasizes that doing all the ultraworks of Christianity when love is absent is virtually useless and profits nothing.
January 7th, 2013 at 2:29 am
oh, and deceivers have no concept of love, because GOD is love and His Word and promises are true. it would behoove the sheep of CHRIST JESUS avoid the false celebrity teachers of today.
Isaiah 8:20 & John 10:1-15
January 9th, 2013 at 11:09 am
Thank you, Holly!
The normal Christian life looks like someone who loves those around them, helping, encouraging, providing, attracting people to the warmth of their love, or drawing the criticism of those who can’t handle the implications.
The normal Christian life is one that lives simple and pure, because they are so in love with Jesus, and want only what He wants.
Or shall I say, the ideal Christian life.
The normal Christian life, at least in so many of the people I know, is this muddle of grace and legalism, as people try to figure out what they can do to attain some greater spirituality, as they lack the full understanding of how total God’s grace truly is.
Love in Christ,
Mark
January 9th, 2013 at 3:33 pm
Holly, that NOLR “Seer” Johnathan Welton would openly state that the occult powers be re-christianized into the active gifts of the Holy Spirit and that they (the gifts) were somehow stolen by the devil or “fallen” into the occult realm and need to be “recovered” is pure plagiarism on his part. Look up the definition of “Hermeticism” and then compare with the NOLR declaration and agenda of training up a new “Elected-Seed Generation” that are supposed to go forth with the “power of Elijah” etc. etc. Don’t be fooled by their comeback arguement that “you’re a dispensationalist” either.
Please consider reading the following key articles,
Popkin, Richard H. Chap 6: “The Third Force in Seventeenth-Century Thought: Scepticism, Science and Millenarianism” in Popkin, Richard H. (ed.). The Third Force in Seventeenth-Century Thought Brill’s Studies in Intellectual History,; V. 22;. (Leiden; New York; Københaven; Köln: E. J. Brill, 1992) pp. 91-119.
Yates, Francis A. Giordano Bruno and the Hermetic Tradition, “Chapter I: Hermes Trismegistus” (Chicago, University of Chicago Press, 1964) pp. 1-19.
You will see that Welton is just re-introducing the same “Christianized” occult magic that plagued 17th Europe; the chief source of the magic being the Kabbalah.
January 9th, 2013 at 4:46 pm
We need to have discernment and discernment of spirits!!!
We have allowed people to say what they want without testing things thru
The word.
I truly believe God has called some to do the work of ministry,Eph 4:11
But to many appoint themselves,and God has nothing to do with it.
We live in a world where we live without the fear of God!!!
January 9th, 2013 at 11:30 pm
God has judged these men and women and all who follow these so call men of God. With 2Thes 2:7-10 God has blinded them to follow these lies and so be blinded from the truth 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
come out of them my people. These are not from God but the devil him self. That includes those following the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) movement
January 10th, 2013 at 9:11 pm
I see a lack of true humilty in the NAR movement and Sid Roth perhaps is on the flaky side from what I see on his tv show. Anyone addresses themselves as a prophet or apostle forget the number one thing: the LORD mentioned”if you want to be the greatest amongst you,you must be (the least) and servant of all.”
SELF proclamation of such spiritual gifts and offices is NOT a biblical standard. It is because that people are lusting for power and yes it is turning them towards occult practices , sad to say.
Folks we are in latter days and yes the LORD warned us about this, so no big suprises here.
Carnal ambition, need for recognition, mainpulation, pride, lust and spirituality without discipline/discipleship (to the LORD) are trademarks of satan’s kingdom.
January 16th, 2013 at 12:20 am
He knows what he’s saying is absurd. But he also knows these wild ideas are a temptation that excites people, making it very likely they’ll buy his books. It’s all about the love of money. Simple, really, don’t you think? Many so called ‘theologians’ do the same thing on all levels.
January 30th, 2013 at 7:44 pm
I am afraid that the things (annointings, manifestations,impartations) being given or imparted to people at third wave/NAR related conferences and ministries are coming into conservative evangelicalism. This is happening by conservative evangelicals who have befriended those in the prophetic movement. This kind of stuff is also spread by laying hands on people such as when praying for people. I don’t see how this stuff is going to stop spreading. When someone prays for you and then proceeds to tell you something in your life they could not have known about other than in some supernatural way people will be convinced that what they just experienced was God. I think this is why the prophetic movement is spreading fast even in non English speaking churches and circles.
January 31st, 2013 at 2:44 pm
I am afraid that the things (‘annointings’ and ‘impartations’) being passed around in the prophetic movement/NAR/third wave are coming into conservative evangelicalism. This is done by people laying hands on others or praying for them and imparting something to them. It is also coming into conservative evangelicalism because some conservative evangelicals have befriended prophetic movement/NAR/third wave ministries or people. I don’t see how the influence of the prophetic movement/NAR/third wave and whatever they may be imparting people with will be stopped. When someone receives prayer from these types of churches and ministries and the person proceeds to tell them things in their life that they could not have known about unless something supernatural was going on people will be drawn to the prophetic movement/NAR/third wave and will think that what is going on in these circles is of God…….how else could they pray for someone and know things about them they couldn’t have known otherwise?
January 31st, 2013 at 8:38 pm
If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck what is it?
If practises spells, communicates with familair spirits and performs false miracles, what is it?
By their fruit you shall know them,
apple trees produce apples
fig trees produce figs
witches produce witchcraft
January 31st, 2013 at 10:19 pm
I still believe God speaks today,thru His word,thru the Holy Spirit,and I still believe He still will give warning or correction to His children,I do agree to many call themselves prophets and speak lies, but the word is very clear ,test all things ,if the word tells us to test wether is from God or not ,that means there is an enemy,and there is GOD,again I believe God still speaks ,cause if any one can hear the enemy then there still are some that hear His voice. The question is are we listening and being silent enough to hear never changes,He spoke yesterday and He still s speaks today,Are we litining.c
February 14th, 2013 at 10:12 am
Jonathan Welton is explaining that the New Age uses supernatural power without having Jesus Christ as Lord. Jesus was 100% supernatural, and we are as He was in this world, we are called to do greater works.
Wake up brothers, wake up sisters!
March 15th, 2013 at 6:19 pm
Amen, imyuliy ! Amen. YES, we are to look like Jesus Christ. That’s the whole point !
March 19th, 2013 at 9:28 am
I think it is great how you can judge someone without even meeting him to judge his fruit. You must be clairvoyant yourself. By your article, I noticed you haven’t read the book and only chose a few excerpts that support your agenda. So are the gifts relevant to today’s church? Show me scripture that states it otherwise.
Back to fruit, I have seen Galatians 5 all over teachers like Jonathan. Deaf people hearing, blind people seeing, marriages restored, etc. By what power is this being achieved? The devil? Come on. Reminds of the SNL church lady. I sees Mat 12:24 all over you all. Besides if you are correct you are going about the wrong way because Romans 8:1 says there is no condemnation in Christ.
I challenge you to study the Bible for yourself and seek after the revelations of the Holy Spirit!
Also a good study is to research what the word apostle means and the root word apostolos.
March 28th, 2013 at 10:37 pm
I was at a Jonathan W conference (and my knee was healed). Pretty sure you have got this article all wrong.
May 26th, 2013 at 4:25 am
Discernment
i have read “school of the seers” and “normal christianity” and I have met Jon Welton.
I have also studied the scriptures for 30 years and my character, though not perfect yet is being conformed more and more to the image of Christ. I am also seeing more and more fruit in my life.
Jonathan is a wonderful man with an accurate understanding of scripture and a vibrant relationship with Jesus. I am not sure I agree with everything Jon says (perhaps he is wrong on fragrance) but the author of this article simply does not know anything about spiritual gifts or discernment ofpositions or the processby which God trains and equips us.
if I walk into a worship meeting in India, see a mental image of a snake and then heal a woman who was bitten by a cobra and has had pain for 5 years – what is occult in that? no that is kingdom living. Btw. Before someone argues – Peter and Paul had visions. Jesus commanded “heal the sick”. Etc….
June 19th, 2013 at 4:01 am
huh,
Did the writer of this text actually read the book?
Jonathan does not promote New Age stuff.
All he says is that a lot of what the New Age does is copied from what the christians should be able to have and do. I myself have had words for people. And sometimes i can smell, feel and hear stuff around people. That is just getting sensitive in the spirit realm. And God can use that through us. I have prayed over people in Jesus name because of what i felt or smelt…
The writer is obviously in a really different mindset that is truly negative and not building the people in the church up.
I wont defend Jonathan but i will defend what he says which is truly good, though i did not believe in it myself i have come to see that God is real in other ways than we think that he fits in…
June 24th, 2013 at 9:40 am
Erwin,
Yes, I did read the book. And I do not believe I misrepresented Welton’s view, as you implied. Notice my article says that “Welton doesn’t see himself as introducing occult practices in the church. On the contrary, he sees himself as a ‘rogue theologian’ who is reclaiming practices that New Agers and occultists stole from Christianity.”
What Welton fails to show in his book is any evidence that the practices he promotes are taught in Scripture. Just because you, personally, have had experiences with certain practices does not mean that they are biblical.
I find it interesting that you have labeled me as having a negative mindset that does not build the church up. I am simply engaging in the practice of discernment that the Bible does promote throughout its pages. Contrary to what you have said, the church is built up when people expose erroneous teachings and point people back to the truth that is taught in Scripture.
Holly
October 28th, 2013 at 1:26 pm
Mark,
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on Jonathan Welton. I, personally, believe his teachings are among the more dangerous in the NAR movement. I am curious, though, what is one thing you disagree with me on?
Holly
October 28th, 2013 at 8:01 pm
Mark,
Do you, then, believe the NAR movement’s distinctive teaching that the church should be governed by present-day apostles and prophets rather than pastors, elders and deacons?
Holly
November 25th, 2013 at 8:04 am
Just to clarify this that I believe in signs and wonders. From what I gather Mr. Welton believes that the Roman cesars were the 7 heads of the 10 headed monster. And that the there is not anti christ. It is the ghostic spirit. In fact, I got an email from an inidvidual in which the inidividual stated that Jonathan Welton believes the anti christs are the popes. And he really goes into the 70 AD false teaching on the Raptureless book. I realy love to hear healing testimonies and again my goal here is to not to bash someone but alot of his teachings in my opinion are too far from the full gospel teachings that I love and enjoy. I come from a diefferent angle.
I would encourage Mr. Welton to be more in line with what the WORD of GOD teaches than rabbit holes and opinions that are not good for the boby of Christ. Do I say that all his teachings are bad, no. IT would be better if he kept his preterist and kingdom now rabbit holes to himself and focus on a full gospel ministry of healing, teaching and delverance. What I am saying is I believe some of his teachings are far out and contraversial and causes strife even amoung NAR, Charismatics or however you want to label people. But a person has to make a choice to serve God and His body properly and make that a priority. So, I am not taking this time to bash someone but to call that person to repentance. And if he doesnt than that is a shame. This is my last post regarding this issue. Blessings, everyone.
December 14th, 2013 at 6:30 pm
How many of you commenters have actually read his book, other than the original poster of this thread?
February 25th, 2014 at 3:31 pm
Sad,
I have spent 40 years in very conservative churches such as Calvary Chapel and Baptist, and Bible Fellowship; that teach that Christians can’t have demon’s. But the truth is in every example of deliverance from demons in the New Testament, the person or the person in authority of their child had to demonstrate their belief in Christ before they were delivered. Yet, when I decided that I needed help and I asked for it, I was mocked. I was told that I wasn’t a Christian if I had a Demon. This is because we have turned away from the New Testament practices of Jesus. It should be “Normal Christianity” to have casting out of demons, and healing. Instead the Church relies on TV to imagine what a demon is. They lack experience and Bible knowledge, to teach them about how demons act. By the way, when you experience a demon come out of you, Jesus becomes even more real to you. The experience was humbling and my relationship with the Holy Spirit is so wonderful now.
The Holy Spirit in Conservative Christian Churches has been rendered powerless, because of the false teaching that the gifts are not for now. No where in the Bible does it say this.
I have listened to Jonathan on Youtube, and you will quickly realize how scriptural this man is. He is a very genuine Christian Man and he speaks with a very well researched message. For me he is another Derek Prince, I suggest you interview the man instead of going on a head hunting mission without research, and relying on hearsay.
February 26th, 2014 at 1:40 pm
A couple of comments. Every time a person has a sinful thought that is usually a demon speaking into a persons thought life. That is why Paul talked about renewing the mind. A christian who yields to these spiritual attacks can become demonized. A lot of leaders in the Calvary chapel movement and other movements who do not recognized spiritual warfare have experienced what they call being bi polar. What they were is demonized. But in most cases in the bible demons were cast out of unbelievers and some against their wills.
As far as Jonathan Welton. He teaches a lot of truth and some error. And he is not nearly like Derek Prince who was a man with much more credentials and did not remind everyone, every day that he was a vast theologian. Derek Prince, was and is a man who was much more superior to JW in biblical teachings. Derek Prince believed in eternal hellfire – JW doesnt, Derek Prince believed in a future tribulation – JW believed that it occurred in AD 70, JW makes the Book of Revelations an allegory – Derek believed it was the WORD of God and most of it was about future events and the end of the era, JW has an inaccurate view of endtimes and the plagues and judgements, JW twists both Daniel, Ezekial and Matthew 24, Thessylonians and changes scriptures to fit his views. He is a preterism evangelist , Derek Pince’s endtime views were more biblical. In the Book Raptureless, when discussing scriptures in Matthew 24 he says scriptures were being taken out of context. The fact is that he changes scriptures to fit his personal preterist doctrine. Preterism teaches Replacement theology. My suggestion is that you pray for JW that his unbiblical views would line up to the WORD. Because he is a good teacher just one who teaches some inaccurate and divisive doctrines and views that divide people or inflame people. If JW can teach more in line with what Derek PRince taught I would say God bless him.
March 30th, 2014 at 6:05 am
I like Jon Welton. He has a lot of good stuff to say.
I’m not sure he teaches replacement theology.
Blessings,
Agape.
May 19th, 2014 at 8:01 am
All I know is that Jesus is Lord. I love him, but I think that certain “Christians” need to realize that some of us have gifts of the spirit and if this man is authentic in his claims, then who are we to judge? There is a whole spiritual world out there and usually we are blind to it,however that doesn’t mean that the spiritual world is blind to us. In fact, it is all around us and if this man can help Christians who are suffering from depression,anxiety,etc among other ailments, then more power to him! It appears that some people perhaps are jealous that he has these abilities, kind of like when I used to go to the United Pentecostal Church (which is a CULT) by the way, but when I went there, everyone was convulsing and speaking jibberish in tongues and I always felt like I was not good enough because I couldn’t speak in tongues. Now after much research, I realize that the UPC church is a fringe branch of Christianity and I avoid them like the plague! The truth is you only need Jesus to go to heaven-plain and simple. So, when an Atheist or a Muslim has a near death experience and ‘sees’ Jesus (or other being of light) they essentially will not turn away from that light as that light equals unconditional love.
May 20th, 2014 at 11:23 pm
“Yet, Welton misuses this verse to defend his claim that a sweet scent like perfume–sent from heaven–magically appears in many of his meetings.”
Since you have not had the same experience, I can accept your skepticism. Your sarcasm, however, highlights your bias and your fear of what you don’t understand.
In the scriptures you can learn about the holy tabernacle. Each item was designed in detail according to God’s command. The incense altar was positioned directly in front of the veil leading to the Most Holy Place. A specific sweet-smelling incense had to be burned on it before the priests were allowed to tend to its lamps. In Revelations we see there’s a relationship between the Jewish tabernacle and Heaven. Maybe the earthly tabernacle is just a model, a shadow, of the real supernatural, heavenly tabernacle where Jesus entered and presented his blood for our salvation. If you believe that, you should at least consider that the existence of a supernatural scent may not be an absurd idea.
Here’s my experience in this area:
As I grew up my father told me he could smell, sometimes, the supernatural scent of the Holy Spirit. I never did but I believed him since he never lied to me.
One day, when I was about 16 years-old, there was this big wedding anniversary party. A couple from church was celebrating several decades together. What happened was that halfway during the party the man felt dizzy and suddenly collapsed on the floor. First close relatives and then doctors checked him and there was no pulse, nothing. As people started looking at each other with fear and despair, my father was sit on a table observing what was happening. According to my father, at that same instant, he smelled the sweet aroma of the Holy Spirit of God, and heard Him saying it was now His turn to fix the situation. My father walked to the dead man and told him to stand up in the name of Jesus. The man stood up. He is still alive today and you can see/contact him and his wife in their Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/fernando.carvalhorj
May 26th, 2014 at 7:43 pm
I like Jonathans teachings.. and books.. he always does thorough research into whatever topic he wants to discuss, criticising him only proves a person is not walking in love and clearing lacking intelligence. Jon is head & shoulders smarter than the above average christian, so i would tread carefully before making negative comments, least you find you are wrestling with His Master. my own thinking has changed 180 degrees after 25years of religious powerless junk. The Kingdom of Heaven is a matter of Power, not words. occult power is only mimicing God’s power but on a lesser plain,, off course it will be similar! the Bible clearly says “these signs shall follow them that believe” and “greater works shall they do”.. what works can you think of that are greater than Jesus did?.. and are we doing them? the religious said Jesus was using demonic power, which proves how ignorant people can be. The Bible says if we ask in Jesus Name and He does it, then it is from Him. simple way to know where the power comes from. Whoever denies that Jesus is The Lord, he is operating in an anti-christ spirit. Jonathan does not do this.
June 8th, 2014 at 4:48 pm
Holly,
maybe God will give you a supernatural encounter that’ll solidify the ideology of the apostolic and prophetic ministry. The BIBLE says that these 2 ministries are the FOUNDATION of the church. Not the pastoral or the evangelistic ministry. The same right that someone has to call themselves an Apostle is the same right that another has to call themselves a Pastor. Its found in the same scripture (Ephesians). The conservative church are afraid of the supernatural so they teach against it. Personally Holly, I was raised catholic, and during my college years, a student who JUST GOT SAVED, prophesied to me and told me everything about my life. Led me to the sinners prayer and I gave my heart out to Jesus. The same night I went to her church and got filled with the Holy Spirit and my life changed forever. Till this day, I have supernatural encounters with God, I can prophesy, I’ve laid hands on the sick and they’ve gotten healed (bones, ligaments, sprains). The power of God is so real and its available to every believer who has an open heart. God Bless
August 3rd, 2014 at 3:44 am
Jonathan Welton uses scripture to back his beliefs. I see a rather large omission of scripture on your part, only using a reference to a scripture that has nothing at all to do with the content of the book. Perhaps you could consider asking Holy Spirit to speak the truth to you so you can move out of the dead dry religion that uses fear tactics to hold people in bondage and into a “relationship” with God.
August 17th, 2014 at 12:06 pm
I believe in supernatural manifestations healings, casting out of demons and deliverance. And I have been to a Welton Supernatural and have many deep concerns about the teachings this man is putting forth. And a number of people along with myself have expereinced him first hand and consider him to be arrogant, a strife pusher and puffed up trying to get people to follow him. I am a Charismatic believer who will not support this man at all.
August 22nd, 2014 at 11:23 pm
Well, I just cant hold back. Apostles were appointed by JESUS himself, they were not self appointed. Definition of the Apostle is one that was chosen and/or taught by Jesus himself. Prophets in the Old Testament were again CHOSEN by God, not self appointed. They were the mouthpiece of Yahweh until Jesus came to fulfill the Law. Paul was considered an apostle only because he was taught by Jesus after Paul has his encounter with our Lord and learns about the Gospel message for 3 years via Christ. So, today a lot of these “prophets and apostles” are self appointed and take that part of scripture out of context(Ephesian 4:11-13). Also, the Bible clearly indicates that we are to test ALL spirits(notice not capitalized) and to be, as the Bereans in the book of Acts) to understand the message to make sure it is true to scripture. As for Christians being “demonized”, again once you have received Christ as personal Lord and Savior and receive the Holy Spirit, one can not be demon possessed. Now, we can be tempted and tormented outwardly by a demon, but to actually be demon possessed is heretical. When Christ came, yes there were more demon possessed people because the Holy Spirit had not yet come until Christ had fulfilled the redemption to those who believed in Him. He healed the sick and cast out demons because he was GOD! His disciples did the same thing at this time because the foundation of the church was being established. Christ, being the cornerstone and the disciples being the foundation around that cornerstone. Jonathan Welton goes against what is Biblically taught, he is not above reproach or rebuke as none of us are. We are told to judge the acts and words of those within the church, of those that claim to be believers of Christ and in the Book of James, those who proclaim to be teachers are held to a higher standard and will be judged by God according to what they are teaching. I am wondering how many that have comment against Holly have actually read the Epistles and Gospel? Every one of them has warnings about false teachers and prophets, proclaiming they are sent by Christ, but they teach a different Gospel other than what was taught by the disciples. JW is introducing mystical practices, his own theology, and to have relationships with angels. His symbolism on his website, the clothes he wears, are all paganistic symbols. He is not bringing back practices of the early church, he is bringing back occultic and Catholic practices that are not Scriptural. Throughout the Old Testament scripture warns the Israelites what practices to stay away from, how evil they are, and that God is against those practices. Those practices for which JW is promoting are those same practices the Old Testaments warns about and that God says is evil in His sight. I was raised in the Assembly of God denomination, I have been filled with the Holy Spirit and have spiritual gifting. I believe that miracles can happen according to God’s divine plan, not man’s plan. There is where lies in the difference. Living the Christian life is more than the “experience of feeling”, it is about being knowledgeable in the faith, proclaiming the Gospel by what Jesus taught….Great commission. The early church was based on what they HEARD, not so much by what was the signs and wonders. Signs and wonders are for those that need proof there is a Savior, those who come to faith by hearing the Gospel, come so by an simple act of faith.
Holly, thank you for your knowledge and please continue to be a voice that calls out this leader as well as others of the NAR. I pray for the Lord’s mercy and asking that those who have been misleading people, his flock, to repent of their sins and to come back to the truth. May the Lord have mercy upon all of us and may I be alert to His coming back again and that He finds me faithfully serving Him for his “Kingdom Come”.
August 24th, 2014 at 3:45 pm
Welton has serious problems almost none of which yu covered. First of all your diatribe about apostles is wrong. Matthias was picked by lot as an Apostle. This is why you would never win the war on ideas because you are attacking Welton for meanliness things that either wrong or exaggerated. Mr. Welton is a preterist, an aggressive Kingdom Now, a non believer in hell.
He in my opinion takes great pains in talking about his credentials of which are suspect. His whole thing is to hold superhatural conferences for Charismatics which is 99 percent the pusing of preterism hard. His real danger is that he calls any Jesus says that conflicts with his idea that the tribulation occurred in AD 70. Right now, all the signs of the endtimes are coming together and this man ridicules endtime eschatology.
I am very ashamed that fellow Charismatic believers are paying attention to this man who put his head knowledge against the WORD. He believes that Revelations was wirtten right before the fall of Jerusalem and teaches the mixing of covenants. I think he is a puffed arrogant man who I hope the Charismatic movement and memebers of NAR will ferret him out to false teacher land.
August 30th, 2014 at 2:45 pm
one thing i know for sure is whether we disagree on so many teachings, we will all find that one day we are all on the same side. You just chose to put up hearsay from a person that probably has problem comprehending English. you lifted of every point you have against him out of the context to show us by all means that he is a FAKE. why would you yield yourself as such instrument. this book you are criticizing will liberate you. read with open mindedness. see, revelation is progressive , leave behind doctrines of men, traditions which only have an appearance of godliness but lack the power thereof. i love JONATHAN WELTON, and YOU too. HE is your brother, don’t do this to any Christian at all. SPIRIT is thicker than BLOOD.
October 13th, 2014 at 7:34 pm
Wow again, you guys are not really worth debating with as you all are happy in your modern religious ways, Holly, you say you read his book and he doesn’t back himself in scripture, he has many many teaching videos that are ALL built from a wide variety of scripture, nothing but scripture, Jonathan does NOT hold to any type of modern teaching, what Jonathan does is studies Ancient historical information to understand what the people of Christs day understood concerning everything biblical, remember the bible was written almost 2000 yrs ago, do you really think you could jump in a time machine (if it was possible) go back 2000 yrs and just fit in, speak their language understand their phrases, figures of speech symbolism and so on? all the other way around the Apostle Paul come forward 2000 odd yrs to today, would he see the apple symbol for Macintosh and recognize it as being Macintosh? or say he was at your place for tea and you told him you were going to ”hit the hay” He wouldn’t even no what tea meant let alone a modern day phrase for going to bed, many make the mistake of seeing the bible as a modern day book because its been translated into modern day language. Anyway that’s my little rant lol. Have a Good day.
October 24th, 2014 at 11:07 am
Welton, teaches false doctrine, has extreme character problems and causes divsion and strife and treats people rudely and badly.
I know first hand of many people who have had a bad experience with this man.
This why this debate needs to stop. God will deal with him personally if he doesnt change or repent. Expect a scandel or something to happen to shut down this circus down.
August 12th, 2015 at 1:13 pm
The trouble is, there undeniably is a supernatural element in the gospels and acts of the apostles – and indeed throughout the bible, so Mr. Welton has a point. I am not sure what he teaches that is so bad – when I looked at the list of things from the occult, it is true these things are from the occult, but i would have thought you could also find scriptures to support the proper use of many of them. While the reference to ‘fragrance’ is clearly wrong, there are other references to tastes, at least, in the context of spiritual visions and experiences, and obviously there are plenty of visions containing sights and sounds from the spirit realm, both in the old testament and new testament. The one I could think of concerning ‘taste’ is from the book of Ezekiel, I think, although it might be Jeremiah: one of them has a vision and is asked to eat a scroll, which is ‘sweet in the mouth’ but ‘bitter in the stomach’ -
February 24th, 2016 at 2:58 pm
From Moses to Daniel, the supernatural of God follows all his believers, we shouldn’t call it OCCULT.
EVEN THE FARISEES ACCUSED JESUS OF CASTING OUT DEVILS WITH THE POWER OF BELZEBUL
BUT JESUS TOLD THEM “A NATION DIVIDED BY ITSELF CANNOT STAND” THEY WERE JUST JELOUS OF HIM
Jesus seems to expect us to do the same miracles that he performed he says so in the scripture:
Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father
john 14:12
I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you.
Luke 19:10
March 1st, 2016 at 8:53 pm
Please pray for me and my church leadership. I am concerned that this man is gaining influence, and his preterism ideas are beginning to poison our leadership. I am going to hear him speak in the morning, and am prepared to ask him questions I fully expect him to dodge. I don’t want to start trouble, but plant truth in the ears of the others at the meeting and cause them to doubt his ideas.
I am a charismatic who believes in the five-fold ministry gifts and the full expression of the gifts of the Spirit, and I think like so many others in the apostolic movement, that Welton is right about many things, but his single-minded evangelism for this preterism and kingdom now idea causes serious spiritual crises that I personally have witnessed. It is the same with John Eckhardt – a lot of great teaching, but the poison of preterism tarnishes them.
Pray for wisdom, the right words, and for the ladies at this meeting to see through him. Thank you.
March 27th, 2016 at 9:42 am
Dear Anonymous
Thanks for your message about Johathen Welton. I actually signed up for the Welton Academy in September but I am not in it now. I thought he had a lot of really really good teaching but something about him troubled me and I just couldn’t put my finger on it. Part of the reason I am emailing you is I would like you to tell me more about your misgivings – in the hope that I can resolve what is going on within myself. Also – I don’t really know what you mean by Preterism?
I have identified a couple of issues – one is that he doesn’t seem to hold the physical people of Israel – the Jews – in any kind of regard – one of his writings more or less makes out that their current situation – the re-establishment of Israel as a nation is nothing more than some kind of spiritually-neutral coincidence – in other words everything is “the church”. I find quite a lot of scriptures to support this view – and would go along with it if I could but historical facts just don’t seem to fit with it. How do you explain the Holocaust other than the devil knows the Jews still have a role to play?
the other thing is I feel he is a bit of a personality cult – I see the signs of it. People who are in his camp are unhealthy loyal to him – I remember the same kind of thing with Kenneth Copeland
March 28th, 2016 at 8:23 pm
Let’s pray for Anonymous and his church leadership !! LOL