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The ‘Great Wealth Transfer’ — 100 Percent Returns!

February 16th, 2010 | 42 Comments | Posted in Miscellaneous

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How can you get rich and build God’s kingdom at the same time?

By following the modern “apostles” and “prophets” — at least that’s what they claim. They say a “great transfer of wealth” is about to occur — from the wicked to the righteous.

If you want to be on the receiving end of the transfer, then you’d better get “properly aligned” with them. What that boils down to is submitting yourself to them.

More than 30 so-called apostolic leaders taught people how to take part in the wealth transfer at the Financial K.E.Y.S. conference held earlier this month in Denver, Colorado. Speakers included Bruce Cook, Lance Wallnau, Os Hillman, Cindy Jacobs, Rick Joyner and C. Peter Wagner. The name of the conference — Financial K.E.Y.S. — refers to their teaching that money is the key to global transformation and establishing God’s kingdom on earth. As Wagner says in his book Dominion!:

“If you check back through human history, you will find that three things, more than any others, have produced social transformation: violence, knowledge and wealth — and the greatest of these is wealth! (page 181)

To make the wealth transfer happen, Wagner claims that God is raising up a special group of apostles called workplace apostles. He says they will have the ability to make investments that will yield extraordinary returns:

“They will not be traditional financial planners who are satisfied with annual returns of 5 percent to 20 percent or so. … I have faith that we will see the biblical standard of 100 percent returns or more become the norm” (Dominion!, page 196).

Wagner and company claim that their prophecies about a “great transfer of wealth” have a biblical basis. Yet, the Scriptures they quote in support of this teaching are taken out of context. Let’s take a quick look at the two verses Wagner quotes in his book Dominion!.

Isaiah 60:11 and Proverbs 13:22

The first verse Wagner quotes is Isaiah 60:11:

“Therefore your gates shall be open continually; They shall not be shut day or night, That men may bring to you the wealth of the Gentiles, And their kings in procession.”

The chapter this verse is taken from, chapter 60, is about the restoration of the nation of Israel during the millennial reign of Christ. It’s not about the Church. The other verses in the chapter make this clear. Verse 14, for example, specifically names Israel’s capital city, Jerusalem, when it refers to “the city of the Lord” and “Zion” (these are two other names for Jerusalem).

In light of the rest of the chapter, it’s clear that verse 11 is saying that the wealth of the Gentile nations (non-Israelite nations) will be brought to Israel during the millennium, after Christ’s return to earth. It has nothing to do with wealth being transferred to the Church, today, through so-called workplace apostles.

The second verse Wagner quotes as support for a “great transfer of wealth” is Proverbs 13:22:

“But the wealth of the sinner is stored up for the righteous.”

Actually, Wagner only quotes part of verse 22. He completely leaves out the first half of the verse without telling his readers that’s what he’s done. But the full verse sheds more light on its meaning. Here it is:

A good man leaves an inheritance to his children’s children,
But the wealth of the sinner is stored up for the righteous.”

So, this proverb is about inheritances and the lasting legacy left by the righteous versus the fleeting prosperity of the wicked. I don’t know how Wagner — someone with multiple theological degrees — could take a simple proverb about inheritances and legacies and turn it into a teaching about the end times, workplace apostles and a wealthy Church.

Apostles and Wealth

Many of today’s apostles insist that they must possess vast sums of money to defeat the forces of darkness and advance God’s kingdom. Yet, Peter and John — two of the original apostles — didn’t have much money and God used them mightily. They relied on something even more powerful than money — the authority of Christ.

Once, when a crippled beggar asked them for money, Peter replied:

“I do not possess silver and gold, but what I do have I give to you: In the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene–walk!” (Acts 3:6)

Never once did the original apostles say wealth was a key to the Church’s success. Yet today’s apostles claim it is indispensable.

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42 Responses to “The ‘Great Wealth Transfer’ — 100 Percent Returns!”

  1. John Says:

    this is just another attempt by false teachers to apostasize the church. 2 things, all of these NAR teachers live and travel in luxury and demand followers live by faith, yet they require a huge registration fees to attend their false teaching conferences and are constantly begging for more money. They release  false prophetic decrees ( lies), from time to time to keep feeding blind followers enough garbage to keep them fumbling and stumbling around in the dark. They come up with a Word or a catch phrase that they claim is God’s edict for the body of Christ. Everyone of these false teachers has had gold dust or feathers or something fall out of the air and call it God, what a jacked up mess we have allowed ourselves to become. What gets me is that there are so many Christians that don’t have an ounce of discernment or knowledge of God’s Word and that is exactly why these babblers are allowed to continue in their lies and heresy.

  2. poppy43 Says:

    Well it was once the  government who was said to be  helping the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, but I’m not so sure now…it’s the the wolves fleecing the sheep! Disguisting!!!!

  3. Brian James Alexander Says:

    Thank you for taking the time to report on this issue Holly! One of the best texts from God’s Word which comes to mind on this issue is Revelation Chapter 2, in the letter our Lord and Savior wrote to the Church at Smyrna, verse 9:

    “I know thy works and tribulation and poverty, (but thou art rich)! Despite the fact  our brothers and sisters were being persecuted by non-christians in this ancient town , Christ did not feel compelled to provide each of them with military assistance—and a million dollars to alleviate their suffering. 
    Rather, he pro-rated their real wealth by the close personal relationship they had with him as their savior. The Apostles, under inspiration of The Holy Spirit, warned that money is the root of all kinds of evil, that our current sufferings will not compare to what we will have when we arrive to Heaven in the afterlife, and Christ futhermore said in the Gospels: “You can not serve two masters—God and Mammon—Mammon being money.” Now to be fair, I believe it’s better to be financially successful than poor. BUT NOT IF THE ACQUISITION OF WEALTH BECOMES MORE IMPORTANT THAN SERVING THE HOLY TRINITY. To be sure, I think you already have proved, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that Rick Joyner and his kind are glorified heretics. The only thing they’re concern with is making money off of the Bible—not seeing people getting saved through believeing in it. If the followers of this movement want more money, then have them put the money they would have spent on these books into a bank instead. And if Rick Joyner, Benny Hinn, and similar kinds complain about this, tell them: “But gentlemen, don’t you want to see them become wealthier to help propogate the kingdom of God?”     

  4. Wayne Daye Says:

    The so-called “prophets” and “apostles” of this age are no more than wolves in sheeps’ clothing.  How anyone who professes to be a Christ follower ( notice I didn’t say “Christian”), listens to this distortion of God’s word, is beyond me.  The Christian faith is riddled with fake ministers and their numbers are increasing.  People love to
    have their ears tickled and there are many preachers out there who gladly oblige.   Open your bibles and let the truth of  His message minister  to your spirit.  Who needs these charlatans? Do not contribute to their ministries.  Put them out of business, once and for all. They are not of God.  Be wiser than the serpent.  Flee this
    harlot system with all deliberate speed.

  5. Lafe Says:

    Holly: At one time, I was a member of a church in Northwood, Ohio called Foundation Stone where Lance Wallnau was allowed by Pastor George Barrett to come and dump his non Biblical
    gibberish on the un suspecting people. Lance was doing the usual: calling for a takeover of all systems of the government so that Christ would be given permission to return/the wealth of the world flowing to Christians….etc…etc..He used the marker boards and film strips to show how all of this was Biblical.
    I discerned early that he was part of this NAR group and subsequently, I left that fellowship.
    These NAR guys are polluting the Word everywhere they go with their nonsense and tragically,
    people rush to them because they also have the same itching ears to hear what they want to hear.
    I wrote Lance W., about his errors but of course, he justified himself and continues to do the same line of work….misleading Christians into his net of submission to their apostleship gibberish.

  6. JC Says:

    You know, according to Scripture, in order to be an Apostle  you must first be a “man”, second you must have been a witness to Christ’s earthly ministry. With the exception of Paul who was visited by the Lord then taken to the third Heaven. So, there are NO Apostles after the 13 of the Bible. Also the word “prophet” is no longer used as it was in the Old Testament dispensation, it now refers mainly to a “teacher” or a man who expounds on the Scriptures. So, why doesn’t the majority of Christians know these things??  Christians have become very stupid and gullible.. Throw a title on your name and you have a ministry.. It never ceases to amaze me what people believe, it is really comical!!  For entertainment, me and my neighbor turn on Mike Murdock’s “Wisdom Keys” program, this is the most hilarious stuff I have ever seen!! He says if you sow your financial seed, curses are broken , sins forgiven, the devil and his demons can no longer oppress you in this life.. SNL should spoof this guy…

  7. Kurt Says:

    It does not matter how many degrees a person has, only the holy spirit can cause someone to understand the bible- rightly divide the word of truth.   Unfortunately, today, there are numerous educated people that should know better sprouting nonsense and claiming biblical support for their own selfish desires.   Follow the money.   The Bible is very specific as to what is going to happen in the end time and it has nothing to do with the church taking over the world and ushering in the return of the Messiah.   Exactly the opposite will occur.  Jesus comes back to save the world from being totally destroyed.   These people’s own words will condemn them.  This is the same garbage that had people flocking to Florida to be fleeched and deceived by Tod Bently and his false prophet friends.  I would not want to be in their shoes when they have to explain their misuse of the Bible and their positions of authority to abuse the flock for their own greed and personal pride. 

  8. JessIAm Says:

    If the people saying this really believed it, wouldn’t they be giving money to the people who follow them?
    These situations make me think of God’s grace a lot: if a person gives innocently (i.e. for God approved reasons) to a ministry that isn’t following Him in truth, does God still bless the giver?  I believe so.

  9. David Says:

    (1 Tim 6:5-6)  Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.  But godliness with contentment is great gain.

    When will the Body of Christ actually believe what the Bible says about people that teach such things and start kicking them out of leadership, and even the church, if they will not repent?  I blame those who support these heretics as much as I blame them.  Add to the list of these so-called apostles and prophets Mike Murdock, Steve Munsey, etc.

  10. Ruitje Says:

    On the website of Morningstar Todd Bentley is now advertising for a conference about the glory (wealth!) of God, ‘the Greater Glory Gathering’. In april 2010. Interesting to see how he is following this Dominion-teaching and brings false teaching. He is talking about ‘god’, but I think he is talking about his ‘god’ the mammon.

  11. Ruitje Says:

    Maybe God has send the golddust and feathers as a mark so people could see that these apostles and prophets are false. Just like the golden calf was a false idol. They are covered with ‘gold’ so you can recognize the false wolves. Just a thought.

    So if you see golddust fall and feathers fly around or hear people saying it is the ‘glory of god’, run for your life and don’t listen to these false prophets.

  12. Tony Whelan Says:

    Silver and gold I do not have said Peter to the cripple.  The Gospel and God’s miracles were not for sale.  Jesus said not to take silver or purse.  The Catholic Church is in crisis because it has consistently failed to take the paedophilia scandals seriously, often attacking the victims.  Their roosters have all come back to roost.  Pentecostal churches are falling into the same trap, but in the area of greed.  If Christians would only take the time to read their Bibles and to study the Reformation, why Luther and Calvin attacked the Catholic Churches excesses, then there wouldn’t be any of these ‘christian’ flakes conning gullible, clueless people out of their money.  For any one who wants to see a masterpiece of spiritual chicanery, they only have to look at St Peter’s Basilica in Rome.  It was built on the lies of Pope Leo X’s papal indulgences, worthless pieces of paper guaranteeing possessors time off from the fires of Purgatory, an imaginary, non biblical place that Catholics must believe in to be counted good Catholics.  Popes Julien 2 and Leo X would fit right into the modern faith movement.
    Come out of her (Babylon )  my people.

  13. Peter Liever Says:

    I have been watching Genesis Revelation TV Channel  which can be seen on Sky or Free Satellite. Before April, it promised changes to sponsorship and programmes to be televised. An advertisement was broadcasted last night on this TV channel showing a christian magazine which publishes articles on programmes from TV christian channels. I noticed that the name of Revelation TV was amongst channels such as Inspiration and DayStar which this magazine promotes. It also claimed that God was doing something new and that their programmes should be watched. On Inspiration TV, Morris Cerullo was talking about prophecy being given to him by God. His promotion about his comming summit in the UK followed. Revelation TV advertised this summit too. Please read below what is going to happen in the United Kingdom…
     “Nothing Wanting Prophetic Summitt” . One event is being held at Westminster Central Hall from the 30th April to 1st May 2010. The catch is to go, one has to register with a fee of £10.00. He is also making a personal appearance at a New Wine Church in south east London on 2nd May. The next day following (3rd May) he will be preaching his doctrines with prophetic utterances at the Aston Area in Birmingham. His last appearance is for the 5th May at the Armitage Sport and Conferance Centre in Manchester.
    Benny Hinn was one of many WoF speakers at the Morris Cerullo Conference in January this year which was held in Orlando, USA.
    They have so much money to spend. It is no wonder that they can live luxuary lifestyles which are paid for by their followers and supporters. The prosperity doctrine is their way to sustian their empires. They are nothing but false teachers and prophets.
    Does anyone know why Benny Hinn’s wife is divorcing him? This has become very typical amongst leaders I know who preached another gospel!

  14. Manana Says:

    This is just ridiculus, I’ m a Christian from the very poor country and we don’t need money for God’s Kingdom , God can give money to anyone He want and He can rise His Kingdom at His own time and whenever it is and wherever it is, and however it is, Jusus doesn’t like money he just use it when he need it sometrimes but He did a Great job, and He want us to continue the same way, expand His Kingdom without lmoving money , But Just Expand by His power and faith !

  15. Stacey Says:

    They are dealing in the wrong currency – that of this world- they need to invest in the spiritual currency of God’s word, which when carefully invested yields thirty to a hundred percent.

    Matthew 13:23

    23     “And the one on whom seed was sown on the good soil, this is the man who hears the word and understands it; who indeed bears fruit and brings forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty.”

    Luke 8:11

    11     “Now the parable is this: the seed is the word of God.


  16. Allan Says:

    Once the dominionists get this big pile of earthly wealth does any sober, reasonably intelligent believer in Jesus Christ think they will willingly turn it over to Him upon his return? The bible has addressed what is going to happen to the material dross of this world system. It’s going to go up in smoke. That seems to me to be a bad investment considering they are giving up eternity with Christ in return. I was always under the impression the wheat and the tares were identifying the church and the world. Now it appears the wheat and tares are co-existing in the church. Some tares actually think they ARE wheat. I guess I had it all wrong.

  17. Stacey Says:

    You are right Allen, Tares look like wheat, grow like wheat, they might even “think” they are wheat, but the one who reaps knows the difference.  It is not earthly wealth we should be in search of but spiritual wealth. The letters to the seven churches speak about those who live alongside true believers in the local church but are not repentant. The call is to repent and believe. The parables that surround the tares parable all speak about the same thing, the unrighteous alongside the righteous. The poor soil, the  birds in the mustard tree, the leaven in the dough, the tares among the wheat. The good fish among the bad. The Wheat, the pearls, the hidden treasure, the good soil, the good fish, these are the ones that are purchased as fine treasure by the Lord these are those who are gathered into the eternal kingdom in the end.

  18. Gary Alexander Says:

    Hey Guys, There are alot of so called Christian Ministers and preachers teaching about wealth and riches. Who do you believe? I’ll tell you who to believe; the spirit of God within you. Let the Holy Spirit minister to you personally. We’re in the last days where all of the belivers will be separated, the ones that are led by the voice of the Holy Spirit and the ones that cannot hear!!!!

  19. deepsquatter Says:

    If there was a true 100% prophet today the “Church” would string him up and kill him. Satan tempted Jesus with 3 things; recognition, wealth and identity…ummm so what are they/you/me  being tempted by??

  20. deepsquatter Says:

    …PS…but do they pay taxes on their wealth???

  21. Doug Says:

    Isn’t there a Bible verse we are to live, about presenting the Gospel or teaching others what the Bible says, without cost? 
    (before you missunderstand that, I do believe and practice tithing)

    Hey, I’m all for wealth transfer to the true Christians, I think there’s
    a precident or two in the Bible as well.  But the fact of the matter is it’s more likely
    the Rapture will take place very soon and we should be telling others about Christ, not making plans to grab fists full of money “when”  it comes.
    Plus, to actually charge people to attend lectures on this and live luxuriously on the proceeds, seems wrong on many levels. 

    Why don’t they have a real job, and do this as a free ministry
    on the side if they feel this is God’s calling for them? 
    Of course we know the answer.

  22. deepsquatter Says:


     I also know an answer to wealth…WORK!!

  23. Don Sanders Says:

    I have read your interesting comments.  So am I to understand that God does not want man to prosper and live an abundant life?  Or, are you just referring to a misuse of scripture in these two cases?

    The bible does say that the just shall live by faith and that God is no respecter of persons (meaning that he’ll do for one as he will for another).  Therefore, if I believe that he will empower me to get wealth based on my faith; is it wrong.  I only ask because “without faith its impossible to please God”.  If God is not pleased with you, why would he work on your behalf?

    And lastly, Jesus said that we would do greater things than He.  If that’s true, why wouldn’t financial means be part of the equation?  You can reach more people with the gospel if you have a million dollars than you could with a thousand.  The blessings of God include prosperity.  How can you expect one to have hope and believe if there is no evidence of that shown in the lives of those delivering the Word?

  24. Carl Walker Says:

    Jesus said it and it sums it up so well, He said the “Love of Money” is the root of all evil, and he said, “You cannot serve God and mammon”.

  25. Mark Says:

    You don’t neeed a million dollars for spreading the Gospel, you need OBEDIANCE based on the Holy Spirit not some fleshly man-made concept of riches. Most westerners are under the spell of Mammon and most ‘blab it and grab it’ followers.
    follow Paul’s example,he worked, he got beat up , he got shipwrecked and he did miracles hmmm which lead to the spread of the Good News. Hmmm I don’t see todays self-proclaimed apostles and evangelists in the lear jets suffering too much for their faith. When they start getting shot or stabbed or mobbed for Christ then I will see the validity of their actions, not in some big comfy mega-church.

  26. Doug Says:

    Balaam (the one with the talking donkey) followed after money.
    Look where that got him.

    Colossians says to think on things above not on things of the earth.  (smart thing to do now that the rapture in imminent)

    Jesus said to sell your stuff and give to the poor and you’ll have money in heaven.  Have you visited a jail?  Call up a prison ministry and ask if you can go the next weekend they can take you.

    Give a cup of water in God’s name and it’s written down.

    Store up treasure on earth and it’ll go poof. 

  27. Kirk Says:

    We are missionaries in Guatemala for the past 22 years.  I stand in the NT Church office of an Apostle.  There is a difference between that office and that of the original 12.

    The prostituting of the Gospel is appalling and when I hear someone preach the wealth and health message I shudder.  Yes the Lord provides for us and wants us to live in health, but not to make profit from his Gospel.  We are to live humbly before Him and to trust him to meet our needs.  We can says with King David, that we have never been forsaken or had our seed begging bed.

  28. K Says:

    I know I’m joining in on this late but in a book I read recently it quoted a woman who saw one of these American “health and wealth” preachers in her country where she is risking her life daily to be a follower and said “do I not have enough faith because I am poor”…it broke my heart…

  29. David Says:

    We live in a day and age where fools like C. Peter Wagner and his group of deluded prophets can be the absolute definition of a false teacher — right down to specific Bible verses — and STILL deceive people.  Why?  People have turned from the Truth in Christ, and are therefore subject to darkness and to those who bring it.

  30. David Says:

    Once we all agree that the false teacher, apostle, and prophet are doing evil and will be judged by God, we must turn to scripture and realize that God holds responsible those who know Him so little that they are able to BE deceived.  In the end, people are not victims.  They are responsible for the desires in themselves that deception is able to entice.  And they are responsible for allowing their church to foster an environment where Truth is pushed aside in favor of what people like.  For every false prophet and every false moment there are thousands of people who write the checks to support them.  TBN is only on the air because of those who finance them.

  31. Glenn Says:

    I don’t know if there is a coming wealth transfer but there is certainly a biblical precedent for many wealth transfers such as the transfer of wealth from the Egyptians to the Israelites when they marched out of Egypt.  I don’t think that a wealth transfer (if or when) is the main issue here. I’m tired of Christians thinking that poverty equals piety.  It’s about time that we as Christians understand our rights and privileges are under the blood covenant.  The book of Revelation calls us Kings.  Ask yourself then, just how does a king live?  God wants us to prosper and have wealth, but we have to know how to receive this wealth.  We receive it by faith in Christ and believing in all the tenants of the blood covenant.  We, according to Mat. 6:33 must seek first the kingdom of God & His righteousness.  One of the earlier comments said something to the effect that we obtain wealth by work.  Really?  Work is a curse if it is not the work of God’s calling on your life. Then it is not work, it is tending.  Adam & Eve before the fall were directed to tend the garden.  Work came with the curse when Adam was made to work by the sweat of his brow.  Christ brought this & every curse to the cross when He said “IT IS FINISHED.”   It is time to grow up and understand your rights & privileges according to the blood covenant so that you can begin to live and act like the righteous king you were born to be when you received Jesus into your heart as Lord & Savior!

  32. Jay Says:

    17 Brothers, ujoin in imitating me, and keep your eyes on those who walkvaccording to the example you have in us. 18 For wmany, of whom I have often told you and now tell you xeven with tears, walk as enemies of the cross of Christ. 19 yTheir end is destruction, ztheir god is their belly, and athey glory in their shame, with bminds set on earthly things. 20 But cour citizenship is in heaven, and dfrom it we eawait a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,21 who will transform four lowly body gto be like his glorious body, hby the power that enables him even ito subject all things to himself. Philippians 3:17-21. What do we really want in our heart and what do these false prophets really want? I believe the answer is apparent on its face. Be careful what you feed on. Great blog.

  33. Jay Says:

    Their god is their belly is key to me.

  34. Austin Hellier Says:

    Back in 1991 I was at a church on the northside of Brisbane for a year. Part of my input there was to work the PA system and week about also run the then “tape and video library” (yep – tapes and videos are museum pieces in the 21st century,) but there was one set of tapes on the “100 Fold Return” by John Avinzini, that sounded soooo good! It seemed to be able to give you some good tips on solving all of your financial problems!

    After I’d heard the first one or two, I got out the high speed tape duplicator and began to “run the presses” on the entire set, producing about half a dozen copies of all 6 tapes. I unwittingly began to give them out that Sunday night after service and they went like ‘hot cakes’!

    The pastor, a kind, loving and understanding man, came up to me after the following Sunday morning meeting, and gently took me aside and explained to me why he didn’t want me to ‘run the presses’ on this man and his ‘ministry’ any more. They’d had him there for a weekend ‘visit’ some months before, and to my horror, I was told that he had demanded (yes DEMANDED) a full payment of $10,000 up front, before he would even walk through the front door.

    The pastor never told me whether the church had paid up front or not, but even so, large 10 litre plastic buckets were passed through the crowd 4 or 5 times during each meeting that weekend (told to me by other concerned congregants later on,) but the pastor said that they’d never have him back again. I then saw just where this ‘visiting ministry’ got his “100 fold return”from – gullible people, who didn’t bother to stop and be real Bereans! Thank God this man and his wife were!

    I sheepishly apologised for my lack of foresight and ignorance, and gladly handed over the remaining master copies of those tapes, which the pastor subsequently had destroyed, never to be heard again in that church – and I learned a valuable lesson that day, about not being sucked in by a seemingly good start to what turned out to be false doctrines on finances, and learned to put a little faith in a godly man and his wife, who at that time took a stand against such blatant false teaching.

    The following Sunday morning this pastor took the bold step of applying Romans 16: 17 and 18, by marking John Avinzini and his ‘ministry’ and encouraging his congregation to avoid any further contact with them, r giving to such a ministry of the “100 Fold Return” fame…

    Austin Hellier

  35. Bob Scruggs Says:

    This is nothing new in 1954 I was thirteen and just left the hospital after a severe burn accident, a friend of the family started to take me to several Pentecostal churches in the Washing DC area for healing due to my arms were infected.
    I don’t know if I really got saved or just ” The Hell Scared Out of Me ” the organ music was very loud, people running around with tambourines, people making animal noises, barking like dogs, yelling in tongues,jerking all over the floor acting crazy.
    Many preachers prayed for my healing with no results.
    On Friday and Saturday nights they had special “Money Goofs” that would have healing pray lines for offerings of $100-75-50-$25 remember payday was Friday so they would squeeze every dollar they could from the innocent and use the catch words as is used today from the false prophets just a different Tune!
    Many years later I got involved in the prison ministry conducting Bible studies in several prisons in the Washing DC area, I seen with my own eyes the Truth of the Gospel with a simple yet powerful salvation message that THE HOLY SPIRIT confirms in the heart of man
    Hundreds accepted Jesus salvation message and many lives where changed for the better, sure wasn’t anything I did because I sure wasn’t clever with the Bible studies but was willing to try to  help others which is all it takes the Holy Spirit does the calling.
    Whatever I taught I will be responsible for and judged but I have no fear for I taught the Bible not some off the wall doctrine to add followers to my clan.
    Never did any of the thousands I taught over the years ever fall backwards, make animal noises, act stupid, yell in tongues, or runaround the floor like the idiots you seen in local churches or TV.
    I’m retired now and often I reflect on the past, did I do enough for the Lord what else should I have done, I have many doubts about myself but I have no doubts about ” The Lord Of Hosts” and His truth that holds up the universe that insures our Salvation

  36. Holly Says:

    Thanks for sharing your personal experiences with us, Bob!


  37. Geoff Andersen Says:

    Just a short question regarding Glenn’s comments from January. Where in Revelation (or frankly in the entire NT) are we called ‘kings’? Our pastor told us we were kings a few weeks ago and I did a thorough search because I was unaware of this, and found nothing – really nothing. We since fell out with our pastor since he is openly ‘Bethelising’ our church – his term, not mine – and seems amused at the thought. I won’t be back.

  38. Mark P Says:


    I suspect he might have meant either Revelation 1:6, or Rev 5:10, or both, as read in KJV, which can cause delusions of grandeur when not read in proper context.

  39. Jonathan Says:

    Glenn’s comments also stood out to me and I was immediately reminded me of this verse, which fits so precisely:

    “Now ye are full, now ye are rich, ye have reigned as kings without us: and I would to God ye did reign, that we also might reign with you.”  1 Cor 4:8

    This verse is immediately followed by a description of true apostles, by which we might discern the false.

    You see, we ARE kings (ROYAL priesthood, 1 Pet 2:9) because Jesus is not ashamed to call us brethren (Heb 2:11), but now is not the time we reign.  Some however, willing to jump the gun, allow this LUST to control them so they wrest the scriptures in an attempt to disguise the lust as if it were the will of God instead.

  40. Jonathan Says:

    Also in reply to that comment:
    “For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.”  2 Thess 3:10

  41. Linda Says:

    Hello Spirit of Error,
    I do believe that there are modern prophets and apostles today.  However, I also believe that many today who are titled prophets and apostles are not. For sure, I think that prophesies declaring a near future event should come to pass.  If a ‘prophet’ continues to give prophecies that are not fulfilled then I would think that they are false prophets.  

    Where are the true prophets and apostles, teachers, evangelists?  They are not recognized by the church.  Why?  Because the church has strayed far from Jesus Christ.  They reject the true offices of Christ given to the church similar to what Jesus experienced with the ‘church’ of his day.  Rejection, opposition, and finally Jesus was put to death as a ‘problem’.

    What we see though is God raising up Jesus from the dead. In the end days we see God raising up the two witnesses who were put to death in the book of Revelation.  Money, power and control over other believers, similar goals as the world might have such as self-exaltation and ambition for importance and influence in today’s world would be some indications in my mind that a person is a false prophet, apostle,  teacher, etc.  

    The church of our day has little if any criteria or will for judging these men and women.  There is no valid authority to do this other than the Scriptures.  I get the feeling that if Paul the apostle were still alive in our day he would have ‘a word or two’ for these people and other disciplines granted to Paul by the Holy Spirit to put the fear of God into them.  


  42. Alignment Says:

    I wish I could summon Dr. C. Peter Wagner from the dead and ask him an important question:

    So where is that transfer of wealth?

    While alive, he spoke and wrote about a massive transfer of wealth that was going to come from the world, into the Church.

    Well, as I observe it, at least up until this point in July, 2020, we have seen just the opposite. Huge amounts of money have flowed into the technology companies, all of whom support anti-biblical worldviews. The Church controls virtually no major US corporations, and Christians have less and less influence and positions of authority. In addition, the Church itself is shrinking by the day.

    The universities hold massive endowments and are almost universally opposed to Judeo-Christian principles. The Christian publishers have almost all gone out of business or have been bought by non-Christian companies. The same goes for the music industry. In addition, the arts, entertainment, pornography and sports industries control unfathomable amounts of wealth, and hold sway over a massive portion of the economy.

    So from my vantage point, I perceive that a transfer of wealth has in fact happened, but has gone in the exact opposite direction.

    Perhaps Dr. Wagner and his associates correctly heard the word “transfer,” but just got the direction wrong?

    That is the problem with prophetic words: they are rarely held accountable. When challenged, one can just say, “Well that is still coming…ahead…in the future.” For me, any real prophetic words need to have a date attached to them. Now to be fair, perhaps there is still coming a massive transfer of wealth. But Dr. Wagner is long dead and still nothing. As far as I understood, he never qualified by saying things like, ”…but wait, this will only happen long after I am dead.” So, what are the rest of us to think now?

    This is one of the dangers of some exhorters, teachers and prophets. They can get lots of attention when they proclaim words such as the one above. I mean, how cool to think of the Church getting lots of money which it can use to spread the Gospel. And yet…and yet, I believe that these teachers will be held accountable by God for any ways they have discouraged and mislead the masses. That is because when they issue words like the one above (which has turned out so far to be patently false) they set people up for disappointment and disillusionment. I have personally known many people who have left the Christian faith entirely, and I wonder how many have been led astray indirectly by teachers of Christianity.

    PS. I hope those leaders still alive will publicly renounce and repent of any previously held (or repeated) notions about this wealth transfer, OR to CLEARLY clarify and qualify to prevent a continuation of errors…I’m looking (lovingly) at you Chuck, Dutch, Cindy, Che, Steve S., etc.


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