Comments on: Brain Stopper No. 2: ‘Human Logic’ is Bad http://www.SpiritOfError.org/2010/02/brain-stopper2-human-logic-is-bad/356 A biblical response to the modern prophets & apostles movement Fri, 05 Aug 2011 00:15:49 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8 hourly 1 By: 8ecky F http://www.SpiritOfError.org/2010/02/brain-stopper2-human-logic-is-bad/356/comment-page-1#comment-10887 8ecky F Mon, 11 Apr 2011 12:41:45 +0000 http://www.SpiritOfError.org/?p=356#comment-10887 God bless you, Kathi Pelton. Kathi, you have been used by the Lord in a big way to minister to me and I just want to say thank you for being obedient to the Lord's voice. You are a TRUE prophetess of the Most High. One of your prophetic words I know was written just for me because God has confirmed many things prior to reading your word and then when I read your word it brought me to tears. "Thank you, Lord!" I know what you are trying to convey in your message and it is of God. This article against you is not written under the influence of any kind of God-inspired spirit. God bless you, Kathi Pelton. Kathi, you have been used by the Lord in a big way to minister to me and I just want to say thank you for being obedient to the Lord’s voice. You are a TRUE prophetess of the Most High. One of your prophetic words I know was written just for me because God has confirmed many things prior to reading your word and then when I read your word it brought me to tears. “Thank you, Lord!”

I know what you are trying to convey in your message and it is of God. This article against you is not written under the influence of any kind of God-inspired spirit.

]]> By: Kandi http://www.SpiritOfError.org/2010/02/brain-stopper2-human-logic-is-bad/356/comment-page-1#comment-2262 Kandi Fri, 25 Jun 2010 04:18:46 +0000 http://www.SpiritOfError.org/?p=356#comment-2262 Hello Kathi,   I will leave the main point of your letter for the author of this blog to respond to, but I would like to comment upon your assertion that “sometimes the Holy Spirit asks us to do things or believe things that go against the grain of what earthly wisdom has taught us.”  That type of statement needs clarification in light of some of the questionable behavior within the church that is represented as being of the Holy Spirit.  In the example of Peter walking on the water, it is Jesus himself who is encouraging Peter to step out of the boat.  There is a big difference between the Lord himself being physically present and hearing his actual voice speaking, and hearing the “voice of the Spirit” instructing us to do something.  The latter type of hearing requires discernment and wisdom, which are gained first and foremost through knowing the written word of God.  Scripture instructs us to test the spirits lest we fall into deception.   I believe we would both agree that Scripture teaches that we are to have the mind of Christ and that we should seek the wisdom that is from above rather than earthly wisdom.  Part of the problem is that people have different interpretations of what this means depending upon their church background and exposure to various charismatic teachings.  Sadly, many of these teachings are not founded upon the solid truths of scripture.  Having been exposed to the charismatic church culture and its teachings for many years, I have consistently seen an emphasis placed on what is believed to be the movement of the Holy Spirit over and above the written word of God.  Not all supernatural activity originates with God, and elevating it over the revealed word of God is dangerous and out of order. As a result, many have accepted as legitimate, spiritual activity that does not line up with the true spirit and nature of God as he has revealed himself through his written word and the person of Jesus Christ.  A gross lack of discernment has caused great confusion and has propagated a spirit of error among sincere and unsuspecting believers throughout the body of Christ.    For example, a few years ago one person wrote to Elijah List encouraging people to roar like a lion in order to tear down principalities and release the spirit.  An Elijah List speaker claimed that he felt lead to pray for several days over the body of someone who had died to be raised from the dead.  While the flies buzzed about and the dead person remained dead, the speaker nevertheless felt that God was pleased with him for trying.  There are hundreds of other examples like these that demonstrate that many people have been deceived into participating in this type of behavior, behavior that goes against the grain of human logic, because they have been taught that the Holy Spirit wants them to step outside the box in the hope that God will move supernaturally.  This false belief does invite supernatural activity, but it is often not the Holy Spirit who is manifesting.    On the other hand, the thing that God does ask us to do that goes against the grain of earthly wisdom is to believe that Christ died for our sins and was raised from the dead, so that whoever believes in him would not perish but have eternal life.  As Jesus’ disciples, we are asked to take up our cross daily and follow after him, enduring suffering and persecution so that we may share in both the sufferings and glory of Christ.  Jesus tells us that we will only bear good fruit if we abide in him, and that apart from him we can do nothing.  The simple truths of the gospel are a stumbling block to the world’s way of thinking, but they are logical to those who have the mind of Christ.    You are right in saying that unity in the body of Christ is important since Christ himself made unity the focus of his great priestly prayer.  But we are called to be unified around Christ and his teachings, not unified to all who claim to know Christ but who involve themselves with those who propagate false doctrine and spiritual activity that neither originates from Christ nor honors him.  I don’t know if you are personally involved in propagating false teaching and illegitimate spiritual activity, but posting articles to Elijah List appears to put you in the company of those who do.  You seem like a sincere person who loves the Lord.  Please accept this as a loving encouragement from one who was once misguided but sincere – distance yourself from extra-biblical teachings.  Study the scriptures more carefully and expose yourself only to solid biblical teaching.  This is what we all need in order to develop the mind of Christ and the ability to discern between truth and error.  As Christ followers, we are on this journey together.  My prayer is that of Paul, that the Lord may give us the Spirit of wisdom and revelation so that together we may know him better (Ephesians 1:17). Hello Kathi,
 
I will leave the main point of your letter for the author of this blog to respond to, but I would like to comment upon your assertion that “sometimes the Holy Spirit asks us to do things or believe things that go against the grain of what earthly wisdom has taught us.”  That type of statement needs clarification in light of some of the questionable behavior within the church that is represented as being of the Holy Spirit.  In the example of Peter walking on the water, it is Jesus himself who is encouraging Peter to step out of the boat.  There is a big difference between the Lord himself being physically present and hearing his actual voice speaking, and hearing the “voice of the Spirit” instructing us to do something.  The latter type of hearing requires discernment and wisdom, which are gained first and foremost through knowing the written word of God.  Scripture instructs us to test the spirits lest we fall into deception.
 
I believe we would both agree that Scripture teaches that we are to have the mind of Christ and that we should seek the wisdom that is from above rather than earthly wisdom.  Part of the problem is that people have different interpretations of what this means depending upon their church background and exposure to various charismatic teachings.  Sadly, many of these teachings are not founded upon the solid truths of scripture.  Having been exposed to the charismatic church culture and its teachings for many years, I have consistently seen an emphasis placed on what is believed to be the movement of the Holy Spirit over and above the written word of God.  Not all supernatural activity originates with God, and elevating it over the revealed word of God is dangerous and out of order. As a result, many have accepted as legitimate, spiritual activity that does not line up with the true spirit and nature of God as he has revealed himself through his written word and the person of Jesus Christ.  A gross lack of discernment has caused great confusion and has propagated a spirit of error among sincere and unsuspecting believers throughout the body of Christ. 
 
For example, a few years ago one person wrote to Elijah List encouraging people to roar like a lion in order to tear down principalities and release the spirit.  An Elijah List speaker claimed that he felt lead to pray for several days over the body of someone who had died to be raised from the dead.  While the flies buzzed about and the dead person remained dead, the speaker nevertheless felt that God was pleased with him for trying.  There are hundreds of other examples like these that demonstrate that many people have been deceived into participating in this type of behavior, behavior that goes against the grain of human logic, because they have been taught that the Holy Spirit wants them to step outside the box in the hope that God will move supernaturally.  This false belief does invite supernatural activity, but it is often not the Holy Spirit who is manifesting. 
 
On the other hand, the thing that God does ask us to do that goes against the grain of earthly wisdom is to believe that Christ died for our sins and was raised from the dead, so that whoever believes in him would not perish but have eternal life.  As Jesus’ disciples, we are asked to take up our cross daily and follow after him, enduring suffering and persecution so that we may share in both the sufferings and glory of Christ.  Jesus tells us that we will only bear good fruit if we abide in him, and that apart from him we can do nothing.  The simple truths of the gospel are a stumbling block to the world’s way of thinking, but they are logical to those who have the mind of Christ. 
 
You are right in saying that unity in the body of Christ is important since Christ himself made unity the focus of his great priestly prayer.  But we are called to be unified around Christ and his teachings, not unified to all who claim to know Christ but who involve themselves with those who propagate false doctrine and spiritual activity that neither originates from Christ nor honors him.  I don’t know if you are personally involved in propagating false teaching and illegitimate spiritual activity, but posting articles to Elijah List appears to put you in the company of those who do.  You seem like a sincere person who loves the Lord.  Please accept this as a loving encouragement from one who was once misguided but sincere – distance yourself from extra-biblical teachings.  Study the scriptures more carefully and expose yourself only to solid biblical teaching.  This is what we all need in order to develop the mind of Christ and the ability to discern between truth and error.  As Christ followers, we are on this journey together.  My prayer is that of Paul, that the Lord may give us the Spirit of wisdom and revelation so that together we may know him better (Ephesians 1:17).

]]> By: Kathi Pelton http://www.SpiritOfError.org/2010/02/brain-stopper2-human-logic-is-bad/356/comment-page-1#comment-2232 Kathi Pelton Wed, 23 Jun 2010 21:51:03 +0000 http://www.SpiritOfError.org/?p=356#comment-2232 Dear Spirit of Error, I find it very sad that you search so hard for error in anyone who writes articles for The Elijah List.  First, I would never publish an article about you (using your name) without first contacting you and hearing your heart or having a discussion regarding what you feel the error is.  Second, I believe that you have completely taken my example of "human logic" out of the context of the article.  There are times that our human or earthly understanding conflicts with the truth of the Lord and His Word.  Many times God asks people to do things that do not fit into human logic such as when He asked Peter to walk to Him on the water...I guarantee you that Peter's mind and logic were saying, "No way, I'll sink!"  But God called Him to put aside that reasoning and to listen to His voice.  I, in no way, suggested that we are to put aside all human logic.  I merely was saying that sometimes the Holy Spirit asks us to do things or believe things that go against the grain of what earthly wisdom has taught us.  I think that maybe you should get to know those people that you call false prophets since I have never called myself a prophet (although I believe that all believers can prophesy).  I just feel that unity and love between the body is very important and would hope that you would honor others by showing enough respect to contact us prior to writing such negative things about me.  Blessings~ Kathi Pelton Dear Spirit of Error,

I find it very sad that you search so hard for error in anyone who writes articles for The Elijah List.  First, I would never publish an article about you (using your name) without first contacting you and hearing your heart or having a discussion regarding what you feel the error is.  Second, I believe that you have completely taken my example of “human logic” out of the context of the article.  There are times that our human or earthly understanding conflicts with the truth of the Lord and His Word.  Many times God asks people to do things that do not fit into human logic such as when He asked Peter to walk to Him on the water…I guarantee you that Peter’s mind and logic were saying, “No way, I’ll sink!”  But God called Him to put aside that reasoning and to listen to His voice.  I, in no way, suggested that we are to put aside all human logic.  I merely was saying that sometimes the Holy Spirit asks us to do things or believe things that go against the grain of what earthly wisdom has taught us. 

I think that maybe you should get to know those people that you call false prophets since I have never called myself a prophet (although I believe that all believers can prophesy).  I just feel that unity and love between the body is very important and would hope that you would honor others by showing enough respect to contact us prior to writing such negative things about me. 

Blessings~
Kathi Pelton

]]> By: Tom Clark http://www.SpiritOfError.org/2010/02/brain-stopper2-human-logic-is-bad/356/comment-page-1#comment-1730 Tom Clark Sat, 01 May 2010 19:52:01 +0000 http://www.SpiritOfError.org/?p=356#comment-1730 Holly,  thanks for your excellent work in apologetics.   I have studied Apologetics for a long time.   I am absolutely convinced that God wants use to love him with our mind as well as our affections.    Anyone who suggests that we should just emote instead of think is a serious hinderance to the work of God.   One of my choice Christian Philosphers was Gordon H. Clark along with many who he taught. Thanks also for your continuation of your father work on <a href="http://www.Fulfilledprophecy.com" rel="nofollow">www.Fulfilledprophecy.com</a> In the last 20 or more years it seems like there has been a great dearth of prophecy teaching and in particular End-Times prophecy teaching. Tom Clark - Phil. 3:14 Holly,  thanks for your excellent work in apologetics.   I have studied Apologetics for a long time.   I am absolutely convinced that God wants use to love him with our mind as well as our affections.    Anyone who suggests that we should just emote instead of think is a serious hinderance to the work of God.   One of my choice Christian Philosphers was Gordon H. Clark along with many who he taught.
Thanks also for your continuation of your father work on http://www.Fulfilledprophecy.com
In the last 20 or more years it seems like there has been a great dearth of prophecy teaching and in particular End-Times prophecy teaching.
Tom Clark – Phil. 3:14

]]> By: Kandi http://www.SpiritOfError.org/2010/02/brain-stopper2-human-logic-is-bad/356/comment-page-1#comment-1684 Kandi Fri, 23 Apr 2010 15:18:52 +0000 http://www.SpiritOfError.org/?p=356#comment-1684 Holly, you are speaking the truth and explaining this beautifully!  In the course of researching this subjct myself, I had the opportunity to meet Paul Cox and Steve Schultz from the Elijah List in person and have witnessed them both teaching and ministering.  I can confirm that their thinking was seriously convoluted and illogical.  The only way that people could accept what was happening in these meetings was to turn off their minds.  So very sad!  The delusion they are under is demonically inspired and opens the door wide to demonic spiritual activity in their meetings.  If I had not seen this for myself, I would have trouble believing that this sort of thing was being passed off as Christianity.  Please continue the work you are doing.  It is vital to the body of Christ. Holly, you are speaking the truth and explaining this beautifully!  In the course of researching this subjct myself, I had the opportunity to meet Paul Cox and Steve Schultz from the Elijah List in person and have witnessed them both teaching and ministering.  I can confirm that their thinking was seriously convoluted and illogical.  The only way that people could accept what was happening in these meetings was to turn off their minds.  So very sad!  The delusion they are under is demonically inspired and opens the door wide to demonic spiritual activity in their meetings.  If I had not seen this for myself, I would have trouble believing that this sort of thing was being passed off as Christianity.  Please continue the work you are doing.  It is vital to the body of Christ.

]]> By: Bob Evans http://www.SpiritOfError.org/2010/02/brain-stopper2-human-logic-is-bad/356/comment-page-1#comment-1670 Bob Evans Thu, 22 Apr 2010 01:07:26 +0000 http://www.SpiritOfError.org/?p=356#comment-1670 The only consistent way to prove out God's Word as non-contradictory and true is to read it in accordance with the normative rules of language, context and logic. There is no other means by which the bible proves itself out as reliable. There are numerous references to using ones mind to determine the valdity of ones faith. If ones mind was supposed to be set aside for some etheral / heavenly message; then these passages are flawed. The key test to those who espouse the idea of not using the mind logically to determine what God's Word is saying is their own inconsistency and demand that you never question their point of view. The only consistent way to prove out God’s Word as non-contradictory and true is to read it in accordance with the normative rules of language, context and logic. There is no other means by which the bible proves itself out as reliable. There are numerous references to using ones mind to determine the valdity of ones faith. If ones mind was supposed to be set aside for some etheral / heavenly message; then these passages are flawed. The key test to those who espouse the idea of not using the mind logically to determine what God’s Word is saying is their own inconsistency and demand that you never question their point of view.

]]> By: Stacey http://www.SpiritOfError.org/2010/02/brain-stopper2-human-logic-is-bad/356/comment-page-1#comment-1632 Stacey Thu, 15 Apr 2010 12:07:52 +0000 http://www.SpiritOfError.org/?p=356#comment-1632 My husband was vilified by the other leadership in our former church because of his intelligence and logical way of approaching things. He was accused of sin and removed from his ministry by men in leadership who cannot distinguish the difference between Godly wisdom and worldly wisdom. I completely agree with you, and would add that there is a reason they cannot discern the difference, I think it stems from spiritual immaturity for some and for others- that they do not really have a relationship with Jesus Christ in the first place. Stacey My husband was vilified by the other leadership in our former church because of his intelligence and logical way of approaching things. He was accused of sin and removed from his ministry by men in leadership who cannot distinguish the difference between Godly wisdom and worldly wisdom. I completely agree with you, and would add that there is a reason they cannot discern the difference, I think it stems from spiritual immaturity for some and for others- that they do not really have a relationship with Jesus Christ in the first place.

Stacey

]]> By: Robin http://www.SpiritOfError.org/2010/02/brain-stopper2-human-logic-is-bad/356/comment-page-1#comment-1461 Robin Fri, 19 Feb 2010 02:23:29 +0000 http://www.SpiritOfError.org/?p=356#comment-1461 Back when I was a young Bible College student, one of those vague "no-no's" was to be an intellectual.   I guess it was somehow the same as being a liberal, commie skeptic. Anyway, what was EVEN worse, was being a woman AND an intellectual. Cheers gal, Robin Back when I was a young Bible College student, one of those vague “no-no’s” was to be an intellectual.   I guess it was somehow the same as being a liberal, commie skeptic.

Anyway, what was EVEN worse, was being a woman AND an intellectual.

Cheers gal,

Robin

]]> By: A_Disciple http://www.SpiritOfError.org/2010/02/brain-stopper2-human-logic-is-bad/356/comment-page-1#comment-1454 A_Disciple Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:10:03 +0000 http://www.SpiritOfError.org/?p=356#comment-1454 One can be intelligent, or quite stupid, but carnal thinking, the thinking of the natural mind, is not a quality of intellect, it is the orientation of the mind. The mind set on the flesh is death, the mind set on the Spirit, which is revealing Christ, takes every thought captive to the obedience of Christ, and by faith personally rests in and trusts in that revelation. Both the wise and simple are both to guard, that lest as the serpent deceived Eve, their minds should be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ. One can be intelligent, or quite stupid, but carnal thinking, the thinking of the natural mind, is not a quality of intellect, it is the orientation of the mind. The mind set on the flesh is death, the mind set on the Spirit, which is revealing Christ, takes every thought captive to the obedience of Christ, and by faith personally rests in and trusts in that revelation. Both the wise and simple are both to guard, that lest as the serpent deceived Eve, their minds should be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ.

]]> By: Vince http://www.SpiritOfError.org/2010/02/brain-stopper2-human-logic-is-bad/356/comment-page-1#comment-1408 Vince Fri, 05 Feb 2010 21:04:19 +0000 http://www.SpiritOfError.org/?p=356#comment-1408 The only way they can get away with their twisted scripture is to get people to stop thinking! How else could a person go to the Elijah List and give them the time of day after seeing their sale of such items as THIRD HEAVEN VISION OIL!!! If that is not a lack of logic I dont know what is! The only way they can get away with their twisted scripture is to get people to stop thinking! How else could a person go to the Elijah List and give them the time of day after seeing their sale of such items as THIRD HEAVEN VISION OIL!!! If that is not a lack of logic I dont know what is!

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