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Rick Joyner’s ‘Final Quest’

April 9th, 2007 | 32 Comments | Posted in Evangelical Supporters, Twisted Scriptures

Rick Joyner — co-founder of MorningStar Publications and Ministries based in Fort Mill, S.C. — is one of the most well-known leaders in the apostolic-prophetic movement and is regarded by his followers as both a “prophet” and an “apostle.” The Final Quest is perhaps his most popular book. It contains a vision that, Joyner claims, God gave to him to equip the last-days church for its final battle against darkness. The Final Quest is followed by two sequels, titled The Call and The Torch and the Sword. Together, these books have sold over a million copies.

Many people, including dear friends of mine, reported feeling very edified by The Final Quest when they read it. They appreciated the book’s heavenly perspective on the spiritual battle Christians are fighting on earth. It reminded them of the eternal significance of how we spend our time here on earth and the glorious rewards that await us. It encouraged them to be humble by reminding them that many of the Christians who will be the greatest in heaven will have been regarded as the least on earth. It also stresses the importance of simple devotion to Jesus and of love for others.

Concerns About Joyner’s ‘Final Quest’
I just finished reading The Final Quest and also appreciated these emphases in the book. The book also contains teachings, however, that should concern Christians — teachings that directly contradict the Bible’s teachings. Some of them are especially troubling and, I fear, will hinder many people’s relationships with Christ.

When I spoke with my friends about these teachings, they were surprised and said they didn’t remember them being in the book. This may be the case with other Christians who’ve read The Final Quest, so I wanted to point out, specifically, some of these troubling teachings. I will deal with one of them in this post and continue to address more in future posts.

I will dedicate several posts to Joyner’s teachings because of his influence in the apostolic-prophetic movement and because these teachings are promoted by other leaders in the movement. I’m not trying to pick on Joyner, but believe serious errors in his teaching need to be noticed so Christians won’t be misled by them.

For those of you who’ve read The Final Quest, I encourage you to go back and read the pages I cite so you can see these teachings for yourselves (if you didn’t already notice them). Note: I’m using the 1996 edition published by MorningStar Publications, so the page numbers may vary in later editions.

Joyner’s Troubling Teaching No. 1: He claims the book’s vision is more accurate and important than revelation contained in the Bible.
On the back cover and in the book’s introduction (pages 7-14), Joyner says he received the vision from God in parts — over a period of one year. He goes on to explain that there are “many levels of prophetic revelation.”

Joyner’s ‘Levels of Prophetic Revelation’

The first level of revelation is, what Joyner calls, “prophetic impressions” — these can be very specific and accurate when those who receive them know how to interpret them correctly. However, these lower-level revelations also can be distorted by the recipients’ biases and incorrect understandings, according to Joyner.

The second level of revelation is a “special illumination to our minds” given by the Holy Spirit, according to Joyner. He says this level gives us “greater confidence” in the “importance” and “accuracy” of the revelation. However, this level can “still be influenced by our prejudices, doctrines, etc.,” according to Joyner (page 10). He believes this is the same level of revelation the apostles received when they wrote the New Testament letters. Joyner’s exact words are:

“I believe that this was probably experienced by the apostles as they wrote the New Testament epistles” (page 10).

The third level of revelation is “open visions,” which, according to Joyner, is more accurate than the second level (the level at which the apostles received their revelation recorded in scripture).

The fourth level is a “trance,” which Joyner defines as “like dreaming when you are awake.” This is the level at which Joyner received the vision recorded in his book, according to Joyner. He says:

“The visions contained in this book all began with a dream. Some of it came under a very intense sense of the presence of the Lord, but the overwhelming majority was received in some level of a trance” (page 11).

The crucial thing to notice is that Joyner is claiming that the vision he records in The Final Quest is more accurate and important than revelation contained in the Bible. This should alarm Protestant Christians who believe that the Bible is error-free and the final authority for Christian teachings (doctrines).

Joyner’s Inconsistencies
After listing the different levels of prophetic revelation, Joyner makes two important qualifications. Yet, unfortunately, he contradicts both those qualifications in his book.

His First Qualification

Joyner warns that modern prophetic revelations can’t give new teachings in addition to Scripture. He says:

“I must state emphatically that I do not believe that any kind of prophetic revelation is for he purpose of establishing doctrine. We have the Scriptures for that”
(page 12).

He goes on the say that — rather than giving new doctrine — the purposes of prophetic revelation are: (1) to reveal the Lord’s present or future strategic will about certain things; and (2) to illuminate biblical doctrines we have not seen before.

If Joyner truly believes that modern prophetic revelations can’t teach new doctrines, then he should be commended for this. But, unfortunately, he contradicts this statement throughout his book, which gives many new doctrines that can’t be found in the Bible or that directly contradict doctrines taught in the Bible. I will look at these unbiblical doctrines in a future post.

His Second Qualification

Joyner warns that only the Bible is free from error, so he urges his readers to separate the “chaff” from the “wheat” in his written vision. He states:

“Only the Scriptures deserve to be considered infallible” (page 14).

Again, if Joyner truly believes that his vision is subject to error, then he should be commended for this. He should also be commended for teaching that the Bible alone is error-free. But he contradicts these statements by claiming that the level of prophetic revelation recorded in his book is one of the highest and most accurate levels — even higher and more accurate than New Testament scripture. So, Joyner seems to be talking out of both sides of his mouth.

Final Thoughts

Toward the end of The Final Quest, Joyner records a conversation he claims to have had with the apostle Paul during his vision. During this conversation, the apostle Paul equates Joyner’s written vision with Paul’s own New Testament scriptures (page 135).

Christians should be alarmed to see Joyner equate his own writing with scripture. Yet, he not only equates his writing with scripture; he actually elevates it above scripture by claiming that his revelation is from a higher level than the New Testament writings.

Given this troubling teaching, I was disturbed to discover that, in 2001, Thomas Nelson (a leading, evangelical Christian publishing house) published Joyner’s The Final Quest and its sequel, The Call, in a one-volume book titled The Vision. Either some editors at Thomas Nelson lack doctrinal discernment, or they were willing to set it aside to make some bucks. Either way, Thomas Nelson bears responsibility for promoting a book with such an unorthodox teaching (and other teachings I will discuss in the future).

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32 Responses to “Rick Joyner’s ‘Final Quest’”

  1. Justin Says:

    “Again, if Joyner truly believes that his vision is subject to error, then he should be commended for this. He should also be commended for teaching that the Bible alone is error-free. But he contradicts these statements by claiming that the level of prophetic revelation recorded in his book is one of the highest and most accurate levels — even higher and more accurate than New Testament scripture. So, Joyner seems to be talking out of both sides of his mouth.”

    Holly, I was thinking the same thing while reading the paragraph before this. His levels of revelation don’t make much sense, especially when he says the level at which the Bible was written can be “influenced” but yet the Bible is error-free. Not making much sense to me.

    Thanks for pointing this out.

  2. jody Says:

    “So, Joyner seems to be talking out of both sides of his mouth.”

    Thats happening alot these days…..

  3. John Says:

    I have not read the book but I will never add to the bible or take away from it. If the christian has ever lived in a time of needed discerment it is now. I will leave you with this thought count how many times when you read a book or discuss religion the words “I BELIEVE” is spoken and remember it does not matter what you believe to be right for we cannot lean upon our own understanding or do what “WE” think is right in my own eyes. Trust and have faith in the holy spirit to lead you for unlike man he cannot be mistaken

  4. John Says:

    Holly,
    Because Joyner claims his revelation is from God and because you and many others (including myself) found error in the book that contradicts the Bible, then why in the world would Christians even read the thing? I read it because I am a pastor and some people in my congregation read it and gave it to me to “check out.” It contradicts Scripture so how can it be of God period? Why in the world we mess around and try to be polite about these things is far and beyond me. God does not give dreams and visions and prophetic messages that contradict His word. The Lord God Almighty does not change. Whether the message was given to Isaiah hundreds of years ago or to a modern seer, He will not contradict Himself in order to “fit the times.” Joyner’s book and subsequent book should be disregarded by Christians everywhere. When this happens then the so called prophets of today will quit publishing these fictional revelations and the church can get back to reading and studying the word of God and living it out in our daily lives affecting the world around us. Has the Bible become so boring, so uninspiring that we need fictional encouragement to be zealous for Jesus and His coming kingdom? Is not the fear of God enough to move us away from sin and toward sowing for eternal rewards? Has the Holy Spirit lost His ability to lead us and guide us into all truth and inspire and anoint us toward the upward call that is in Christ Jesus? Silly questions? Maybe, but silly Christians are reading, listening to and following a lot of silly stuff these days that are not biblical sound doctrine. So maybe silly questions aren’t all that silly. It is time we repent, quit supporting all these men and women who call themselves prophets and get back to our first love.

  5. Lafe Tolliver Says:

    Why is it so difficult for believers to exercise discernment and when the
    dog “won’t hunt”, to leave the questionable reading material behind or at best, read it and sharpen your own discernment skills when you read it
    alongside the Word of God as your light and lamp.
    Joyner’s nonsense is fictitious pulp in order to merchandise the saints of
    God. If you read Joyner’s poppycock, read it as a fantasy porridge with
    no redeeming value and give Joyner no esteem or credits as being a
    Biblical prophet. None. Personally, I would prefer to read the real thing…
    The Word of God than waste time reading Joyner gibberish.

  6. sadie Says:

    holly,
    i agree with john. i started to read the book because a co-worker insisted i should read it. but i too saw the errors in the book and stopped reading it and tossed it in the trash.

  7. jody Says:

    “It is time we repent, quit supporting all these men and women who call themselves prophets and get back to our first love.”

    Amen

    But this will only continue to grow worse and worse as long as those who should know better continue to lend an air of legitimacy to the false teachers by appearing with them in their dog and pony shows and never openly rebuking them.

    With this…they become partakers of their evil deeds.

  8. jody Says:

    “Either some editors at Thomas Nelson lack doctrinal discernment, or they were willing to set it aside to make some bucks.

    Either way, Thomas Nelson bears responsibility for promoting a book with such an unorthodox teaching”

    Exactly…we are told that if we so much as wish those who promote another Gospel God speed….we become partakers of their evil deeds.

    Why?

    Cause by acknowledging them in even such a minor way makes it seem as if we are in agreement with them.

    Makes it look as if… at least to those we have influence with… we condone their teachings even tho they contradict the word of God. Thus next thing ya know….the unlearned/babes …due to not being adequately warned away from such false teachings….are frequenting the dog and pony shows put on by the wolves in sheeps clothing and being lead astray.

    Very dangerous indeed….the bible is clear about what happens to false teachers/prophets and those who heed their teachings.
    Without repentance….they will both, false teachers and their followers… go blindly off the cliff together.

    And if we have become partakers of their evil deeds by promoting them or giving them our blessing in some form or fashion…can we honstly expect any less of a judgement for ourselves?

    Ezekial was told that if he was to warn the wicked…and /or the righteous man who had turned from his righteousness and was sinning…and he didnt….thus they died in their sins….he would have their blood on his hands.

    Eze 3:18
    When I say unto the wicked,
    Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning,
    nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life;

    the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity;

    but his blood will I require at thy hand.

    Eze 3:19
    Yet if thou warn the wicked,
    and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity;

    but thou hast delivered thy soul.

    Eze 3:20
    Again, when a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumblingblock before him, he shall die:

    because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteous deeds which he hath done shall not be remembered;

    but his blood will I require at thy hand.

    Eze 3:21
    Nevertheless if thou warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not, and he doth not sin,

    he shall surely live, because he took warning;

    and thou hast delivered thy soul.

    Paul confirmed this in Acts 20

    Act 20:26
    Wherefore I testify unto you this day,

    that I am pure from the blood of all men.

    Act 20:27
    For I shrank not from declaring unto you the whole counsel of God.

    Act 20:28
    Take heed unto yourselves, and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit hath made you bishops, to feed the church of the Lord which he purchased with his own blood.
    Act 20:29
    I know that after my departing grievous wolves shall enter in among you, not sparing the flock;
    Act 20:30
    and from among your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them.

  9. jody Says:

    Jas 5:19
    My brethren, if any among you err from the truth, and one convert him;

    Jas 5:20
    let him know, that he who converteth a sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall cover a multitude of sins.

  10. Brian Says:

    Holly,
    I wanted to ask why do a critical commentary on this book “The Final Quest”? This book has been out for over ten years now and while I agree with what you said, there have been many critiques of his book out for quite some time now that go deeper into Rick Joyner’s deceptive words, just wondering the “why?”
    Brian

  11. duesters Says:

    Is it really so bad to read someone’s work and to be edified by the parts that are in line with the Bible and that draw you closer to God, and then to simply disagree with those parts that are questionable? Kind of a “chew the meat, spit out the bones” approach.

    By the way, I liked TFQ, but found the subsequent book to be so poorly written that I didn’t get a quarter of the way through. It was really weak.

  12. jody Says:

    “Kind of a “chew the meat, spit out the bones” approach.”

    NOPE…

    Gal 5:7
    Ye were running well;
    who hindered you that ye should not obey the truth?
    Gal 5:8
    This persuasion came not of him that calleth you.
    Gal 5:9
    A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.

    Gal 5:10
    I have confidence to you-ward in the Lord,

    that ye will be none otherwise minded:

    but he that troubleth you shall bear his judgment, whosoever he be.

    1Co 15:33
    Be not deceived: Evil companionships corrupt good morals.

    1Co 15:34
    Awake to soberness righteously, and sin not;

    for some have no knowledge of God: I speak this to move you to shame.

  13. kimberly Says:

    jody also says…

    “It is time we repent, quit supporting all these men and women who call themselves prophets and get back to our first love.”

    Amen

    But this will only continue to grow worse and worse as long as those who should know better continue to lend an air of legitimacy to the false teachers by appearing with them in their dog and pony shows and never openly rebuking them.

    With this…they become partakers of their evil deeds.

    if both jody and holly agree with that statement… then herb peters would call out stan johnson and the prophecy club for their FALSE prophecies. He is helping them obtain legitimacy again, along with new followers.

    teachers APPEARING WITH THEM IN THEIR DOG AND PONY SHOWS AND NEVER OPENLY REBUKING THEM….

    GREAT QUOTE JODY!!!!

    now lets apply it to EVERYONE and be sincere about this!

  14. carla Says:

    I read this book about 7 years ago and was one of those who liked it. I now realize it is part of a larger deception.

    Thanks for not bowing to the god of popularity as you continue to boldly stand for the truth!

  15. Darc Says:

    I appreciate everything that has been said in light of or in opposition to Rick Joyner. He is not of the Light rather he is following the god of this world. As one commented that we need to be more on guard as time marches on. Jesus Himself said that there would be false prophets rise up and deceive “many people” as a sign to be aware of and watch out for (Mt 24:11). Now if Jesus warned His sheep of this then why would any want to or desire to read or “learn” from any other source than Him? As one commentor said here, is the Bible become so boring that we don’t read it anymore? Please brothers and sisters in Christ stay away from these people. If they are popular stop and think about it because that would mean they don’t have a doctrinely sound message. Jesus spoke TRUTH and he was killed for it and so were His disciples. If the message anyone speaks is not from the Word then flush it, especially in light of what you’re saying about this man. It’s the devil’s job to decieve and he will wrap it up very nicely to make it look like and even sound like Christian to the point where he snares you. By the mear fact that these books sell many many many copies should make you stear away from them. More than likely if you’re following a crowd of people reading popular or “best selling” books like this then you are NOT following Jesus! Think about it! Beware pilgrims!

  16. David Says:

    Hello Everyone especially all my Brothers and Sisters in The Lord Jesus Christ: I will be brief. I have given allot of thought and prayer to what we all comment on good, bad or in between. I have decided that after prayer I am and so are most of us reacting to so many things on this blog. We are all in our minds and hearts to one degree or another right.

    The point I am trying to make, would it not be wiser for all of us to stop trying to get points across about people and instead concentrate how we could encourage one another in The Word. I know that there are many false teachers and false works, yet do you not think it would be wiser to follow Jesus example and pray for people who we feel are in error of scripture Matthew 5:43-48. If they are wrong, The Lord will, as always, deal with them and thier works, He will deny them Matthew 7:21-23 and Romans 12:19-20. If we go even further we see His example on the Cross
    Luke 23:34.

    I can speak from personal experience here as I am as wrong as anyone else, and as Jesus also reminds us in Matthew 5:14-16 we are His light, the light of the world, and we are to shine for Him so as to glorify The Father in heaven.

    I pray that we can turn Holly’s wonderful blog into an encouraging spirit filled site for one another. It would be so wonderful if others would read this blog and write comments like Trust in the Lord, I recieved Christ today, I was water baptised today, etc.

    Thank you all and God Bless

    Your Brother in The Lord

    Dave

    davidandsherri@pei.symapatico.ca

  17. kimberly Says:

    David/Dave…

    please go back and look at the TITLE of this blog, then report back.

  18. Nathalia Says:

    Thanks for this.
    I was starting to read the book and it did impact me, but not in a bad way.
    I even told my friends to read it with me…
    How more foolish can I be?
    If it’s not the bible how can we believe it?
    Thanks for this, I thank God that he used this to stop me from reading more.

  19. Hio Bi Says:

    I read the book, I find nothing wrong in it. as you said He said in his book that the bible is free of error this means that the vision his receive can’t be more correct than what is written in the bible. he just try to explain something very important about Levels of Prophetic Revelation. we must try to understand the lesson in what he said because we make many mistakes because we don’t the Levels of Prophetic Revelation. be more positive in your mind.
    thank

  20. Stan Says:

    Thanks, Holly, for this critique. This book belongs in the Sci-Fi/Fantasy section of a secular bookstore it is so bad. Joyner claims (page 10-11) it came from the 4th level of revelation — Trances — two levels HIGHER than (as he arbitrarily presumes) the writers of the Bible wrote under! The implication is if his work needs to be discerned by the reader (which he encourages them to do, p. 13-14), then how much more does the bible, which was written two levels lower? His duplicity on this point is revealed when he says that this lower-level work of revelation called the Bible is infallible. As long as he stands unrepentantly by this work and his related doctrines, he has no business being an author or ministry head or calling himself a prophet; nor does any true believer have any business reading his material devotionally.

    The Final Quest starts out cleverly characterizing his critics as demon-ridden, vomit eating believers at the bottom of the holy mountain. Rick, of course, is positioned on the mountain high above them (get it?) bravely fending off their arrows of criticism. In the opening chapter then, Rick Joyner insulates himself from criticism by portraying anyone who questions him or calls him what he is, “a false prophet,’ as being under the influence of the devil. What poppycock.

    In this book, he has angels bowing to him (page 68). They are relieved of their naivete by Rick (page 74). The angelic leader can finally speak to Rick with, get this, “uncharacteristic confidence” (page 74). Rick asks a question of an angel named Wisdom, who is in reality “Jesus,” and it seems to jolt Him. Apparently, Rick Joyner can jolt Jesus with a question (page 45). He solves puzzles in heaven (ala an adventure in a video game). He gets uninhibited access to the tree of life. Whatta guy Rick is! He is more powerful than a speeding locomotive . . .

    On page 88, his “dead acquaintance” tells him that “We (the dead saints Joyner sees up there) have our resurrected bodies now, and you do not.” This means that the resurrection is past. We’ve missed the rapture. Remember what Paul called that doctrine? Gangrene! (2 Tim. 2:16-18).

    He is told by “the apostle Paul” that he (Rick) must recover the ministry and the message which was lost in the church very quickly after Paul’s time. Even the Lord “nodded in affirmation.” (page 135-136). So, according to TFQ, Joyner has a mandate from heaven to restore what the church so long ago lost. What self-promotion. What chutzpa!

    I was asked to read this book by our church librarian who had mixed feelings about it. She felt inspired by many of its statements, but she felt sad because it made her feel left out. Because she felt this way, she says she wanted more of God. Her simple faith suddenly seemed paltry and shameful to her. Certainly, God needed to lift her into higher realms than the “plain old gospel” had done for her. That’s what Gnostics can do to you if you let them. They make you feel left out. They compel you go in a vain search to acquire these lofty experiences so you can feel as spiritual and special as these people are.

    Gnostics (aka Mystics) make you believe you don’t already have all spiritual blessings in the heavenlies bestowed upon you as a believer, as the bible affirms about you. They want to sell you things you already own. You must follow them and their secret ways. That is what the Final Quest trilogy is about. Secrets. Secret doors to open, puzzles to solve, stones to acquire, swords, mantles and glittering armor, angelic obeisance, talking eagles. All of them designed to make the average believer come after them for the inside information they possess, all the while holding them in awe.

    They (Rick Joyner and the rest of these pretenders) have gone far “beyond what is written,” something forbidden in 1 Cor. 4:6. This is what makes them Gnostics.

    This book is still making the rounds. The next two in this fantasy trilogy are even worse. Anyone who defends this book needs to get to a real church that knows the gospel that the Apostles preached. Start with 1 Corinthians 15:1-8 and work your way slowly through the other major doctrines of the apostles, keeping the core message intact. The message is narrow. This is why the way is narrow. It is about a Raised Man who died for our sins. All true doctrine centers on Him. Yet, Rick Joyner managed to make his book all about himself.

  21. Elia Says:

    yea ive just started rereading it and ive been wondering about all these contradictions. the one thing i wanna point out is that Rick like you and i is very human and is subject to error and useing the wrong words. this book may have twisted ideas at times but if discern which are lies and which is truth then the story itself is very uplifting. i would recommend this book to other christions but only those that you can talk with and explain whats parts are lies.

  22. Karen Chandler Says:

    I am a simple person without extensive knowledge about the Bible, but I have
    always searched and desired peace and love through Christ. I am still waiting
    and still praying for help and strength in how to achieve this. This book, TFQ, was highly recommended to me by a Christian Counselor who specializes in
    trauma life experiences, of which I have had many. I read the book, perhaps, expecting an epiphany which never happened. I finished the book, was completely confused, and thought it might be helpful to read commentaries on this book.

    I stand alone in my search, because I want so much to believe. For now, I will continue to be as kind, loving and live the best life I can.

  23. Eva Thomas Says:

    I loved the book and it changed my life. I never felt he implied that it was absolutely gospel.he was sharing thru a glass seen darkly and I was blessed beyond measure. I saw christians and the warfare we are in as never before.. watch your judgemental, critical , self righteous spirit,it isn’t becoming .

  24. Andrew Says:

    I haven’t read the book yet, but when u guys say that the book should the tossed in the trash then it must be because the book in it’s core is a lie. we should do as the bible tells us and take what’s good and righteous and to let go of the things that aren’t correct, it’s like our spirit worked as a filter, we take the good and let the bad pass through. in some of the comments I don’t really see a valid correction to the work, but I see is just a way to discredit the author.

    The guy who wrote the book is human and he might’ve made mistakes in his book, which is totally normal since we are not Jesus to have the perfect comunion with the father and make no mistakes at all. in fact, before even start pointing out how wrong he is, let’s check out how wrong we’ve been sometimes when we’re sharing the gospel, I’m not saying there’s evil in your hearts and that u are trying to make fun of the work of God, but let me make this clear, WE MAKE MISTAKES, and for that we shouldn’t be taken out of church and tossed to trash. God has an unending grace for us and even when we say something that is not correct, he doesn’t just appears in the midst of our church and starts pointing at us and showing the rest how wrong we are, but he as a loving father comes in the secret place and corrects us, in a way that we can feel supported by him.

    Holly, makes us take in consideration a moment in the book when rick has a conversation with Paul and he equates his own writting to the one of Paul in the new testament. Christians should be alarmed? should we be alarmed because God moves in the same way or even in a deeper way than the apostles?, I don’t think so, Jesus himself said that we would do greater works, and for doing greater works I think we should have a deeper revelation, I’m not saying Rick is moving in that dimension now, but I’m making a space for the possibility of that to happen. isn’t it exciting to know that God is moving in the same way or in an even greater way than he did in the apostles time. we should stop the destroying criticism, change it for a constructive criticism and rejoice that the Lord can move in mighty ways.

    so just to conclude, let’s remember Rick Joyner is human, and the bible in Hebrews 12:2 says that Jesus is the author and perfecter of our faith, it never says the apostles or any other character got to the point of perfection, so why are we taking someones mistake and already crucifying Him? let us stop and filter everything we read, test it with the scriptures. whatever doesn’t fits in, taken out and what fits in, start digging deeper maybe we find a pearl. if we toss it to the trash we might be giving pearls to the pigs.

  25. Milton Velasquez Says:

    Andrew,

    By far you are far more spiritually mature by the way you commented. I was about to write some what to what you commented, but when I read your comment you said everything for me. Praise The Lord for his Grace!!!!!!! I pray to GOD that those that are thinking religiously and not by his GRACE, could see that GOD can show and do to anyone according to his GRACE!!! AND THAT includes far more greater than he did with the Apostles.

    No one is perfect, only Jesus Christ. When I read the book I got the good and applied it. I also got what seemed the bad and was mature about it. I am aware that possibly Mr Joyner might of made a written mistake, but By the Grace of GOD I was able to learn and grow more spiritually. I believe that the last generation church will do and see greater things by his grace. Today this world is far more worse than the world that the early church lived in. So GOD needs to show more power and love due to this corrupt world that we are now living in. Everything Jesus did that is recorded in the Bible is far more greater than anything the Apostles including Paul did. The Lord said to the Apostles that they would do greater (things) than him. He did not say to them that they will do a great (thing) than anything that he has done which the only great thing that I can think of they did was Peter ( healing the sick just when his shadow would hit them). The Lord said that they would do greater things not a great thing like Peter did. So the greater things are happening yet these days to those who accept the hidden mystery of his word and live by it. I dont know about you guys but I believe that we the last Church needs to wake up and let God show and do greater things through us. Because those greater things that he is referring to are for us the last Church. Amen

  26. Melissa Says:

    Thank you for this writing; I know some people who have organized their whole lives around this false prophet and it has hurt them spiritually.

    To Milton Velasquez, the Bible does not tell us to just take the good from a false prophet’s lips and discard the bad. It warns us repeatedly to WATCH OUT, to MARK AND AVOID false prophets, etc.

    Only a Hireling sees a wolf coming at the sheep and says nothing. Anyone with an ounce of love for the sheep of Christ will warn the sheep about the wolf, and try to save them from his mouth.

    This man Rick Joyner is very dangerous – his book is dangerous precisely because it contains some “good” or “uplifting” things in it.

    Would you be contended to eat food mixed with poison, provided the amount of poison was small? You could simply try to pick out the good parts and throw out the bad.

    I also want to say that a mark of true maturity is discernment, based on Heb. 5:14. The apostles and Christ commanded us to watch out for false teachers, mark them and avoid them. Anyone who is led astray by these men, and does not stay in the doctrine of Christ, has not God. DANGER!!!

    God bless you.

  27. Kim Says:

    Rick Joyner is your brother, that is if any of you truly are believers and followers of my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. He preaches the death, buriel and ressurection of Jesus and I dare say brings more people into the God’s kingdom than any of you do!
    So enough with all of your judgment and condemnation of the man, who is my brother, and be “the living epistle” that Jesus was and follow His example on how to live.
    Jesus speaks clearly and plainly when He said, “I do not come to comdemn the world, but to save it.” Does condemning christians so easily somehow “puff” yourself up or make you feel “better than” the next guy. More enlightened or “right”…it certainly is easier to “take apart” someone elses work and attempt to reach the world for Christ than to actually write a book yourself or do something a bit more constructive than to simply tare someone else’s work down. Last I heard, there was only ONE person who has walked on this earth that was perfect. The rest of us fall into the “other” catagory, so go live your own life and pray that others will be gracious and merciful towards you if you indeed ever say or do something that isn’t quite Perfect.
    “Judge not, lest ye be judged.” Jesus was filled with love and compassion, mercy and grace to all EXCEPT to the religious people who THOUGHT and QOUTED scripture and acted like they were somehow more holy or perfect than everyone else!

  28. BARNABAS Says:

    I am deeply troubled by your write up Mr Holly. You sound like one of the brethren who where determined to pull down their fellow brethren. Rick joyner’s experience might not be perfect, but it was refreshing to those who are being saved and offensive to those who are perishing. Pls, can you give us God’s perspective on this issue since you seems to know better. I did not notice what you called an error not until you raised it and refused to clarify it. You have succeeded in raising an army of critics who will never be blessed by these beatiful pieces of work, bravo to you. I read THE FINAL QUEST about four years ago but i have never refer to it as a source of doctrine. Have you not heard that some men have used the Bible to formulate false doctrines e.g same sex marriage, get rich quick, abortion, premarital sex, divorce e.t.c? Sir, men will make erroneous doctrine out of the truth if they are not in tune with the Spirit of truth. ” the letter kills but the Spirit gives life” SIR, IN WHAT WAY HAS YOU ARTICLE PROMOTE THE GOSPLE?

  29. Servant2112 Says:

    Kim:

    First off, I am a follower of Christ, and Mr Joyner is not my brother. If he is yours, then I will pray for you.

    You claim that Mr Joyner brings “more people into the God’s [sic] kingdom than any of you do!” What an odd statement. Men don’t bring souls to God’s Kingdom – Jesus does. The Holy Spirit works through us and equips us to witness and spread the gospel, but I doubt that you or I, or Mr Joyner, have ever single-handedly “brought” any one into God’s Kingdom. I hope that at some point before he became a heretic, Mr Joyner was able to witness the true gospel to a lost soul. I hope that the power of the Holy Spirit was at some point, able to work through him to bring a person to salvation. But he has clearly strayed so far from God’s truth, that he wouldn’t recognize it if he heard it, nor would he be able to convey it to the lost.

    You condemn Holly and other posters for “tearing down” Mr Joyner’s attempt to “reach the world for Christ.” First off, I would like to know precisely how Mr Joyner’s self-serving denial of the finished Word of God is “reaching the world for Christ.” I want you to explain to me how any of Mr Joyner’s tripe is supposed to edify the body of Christ. How has it made you personally a better Christian? And the $10,000 question: How is Mr Joyner’s prolific writing responsible for wide-spread salvation? Especially since the point of his books are not to spread the gospel, but to exalt himself above the gospel of salvation through Jesus. His many books and eloquent words, and outlandish visions are no more able to save him than they are anyone else. If we were to judge wisdom or “anointing,” or salvation by the number of books we’ve published, then no one except the published would be used by God.

    A follower of Christ stands on the Word of God. You, apparently, stand on the word of Joyner and on your poor understanding of scripture. It is up to you to prove that what Holly is conveying, though backed by scripture and Christian doctrine, is untrue, non-constructive, judgmental or unloving, and you have not succeeded in doing so.

    You are correct in stating that we are not to condemn other Christians. Mr Joyner, however, is not behaving like a true Christian, nor is he conveying the living gospel in his writings. He is attempting to peddle his vision and self-exaltation as divine revelation above and beyond the finished and perfect Word of God. This is heresy. Faithful believers – those who contend for the truth – are to sound the trumpet at the sight of wolves and heretics, and this is what Holly is attempting to do. If you want to shut your eyes, cover your ears and run blindly into the maw of the wolf, then you are free to do so, but please don’t berate an obedient follower of Christ for sounding the trumpet and shedding light on false teaching.

    You are correct in stating that none is perfect except Christ Himself. This is why believers are to trust in the Word of God and in the Holy Spirit, who guides us into all truth. This, again, is why Mr Joyner’s teaching is so dangerous. He wants you to believe that his extra-biblical “vision” is truth, when there is only one perfect truth. So you must decide for yourself, Kim: either the Bible is wrong, or Mr Joyner is wrong, but they can’t both be right. No one is judging or speaking out against Mr Joyner for being imperfect. Holly is speaking out against Mr Joyner because he’s lying to Christians and leading some astray.

    Lastly, if Christians were to practice “judge not” according to your misinterpretation, we would all be drinking out of the same spiritual trough as pagans, muslims, Jehovah’s Witnesses, and Mormons. Very ecumenical, but very wrong. We are called upon to discern all things, to rightly divide the Word of God, and to do as the Bereans, testing everything in light of scripture. We are to set ourselves apart from those things that are not of God. No one is “condemning” or falsely “judging” Mr Joyner, Kim. By virtue of his departure from God’s Word and his separation from Christian doctrine and orthodoxy, he has set himself up for judgment.

    I pray that God opens your eyes to the truth of His Word. I really believe that you are a loving person who does not want to see a supposed Christian thrown under the bus. You obviously have a very tender heart. But I exhort you to use the lovingkindness that God has given you towards Christians who are being drawn away by false teachers like Mr Joyner. Lets all pray that Mr Joyner repents from his rebellion and pride, and that he will commit himself to preaching Christ and Him crucified.

    God bless you!

  30. Andy Says:

    lol relax, its just a book. I was very encouraged by the Final Quest. I recommend it to people all the time!

  31. Adam Says:

    Hey, I’ve never actually got involved with things like this and probably won’t check back so please don’t try and start an argument lol. Ok the only thing that I really have to say is that when he is saying that there are 4 types of visions and that the apostles probably had the 2nd one i.e. illuminations to our mind, he, I know at least I, wasn’t trying to say one was better than the other. I think with our limited mindset we think that one type of vision is better than the other, and we judge it according to our limited knowledge, when really God has His purposes for giving each kind of visions. So for instance, if the apostles had the 2nd kind of vision, when John, very clearly, had a 4th level vision i.e. a trance during the book of Revelation, does that make the book of Revelation more accurate and better than the rest of the Epistles, let alone the rest of the Bible. Certainly not! It’s just a tool that the Holy Spirit used to convey the message He wanted to get across. And really it wasn’t about the writers and whether or not they were infallible, it was about the Holy Spirit pouring out the Word into a book that makes it infallible, of course I’m talking of the Bible not the Final Quest. So the thing that made the Bible infallible was not the way that it was receive and put on paper, but rather the One that gave it and sustains it, the Holy Spirit, which makes it the Word of God. I obviously cannot speak for Rick Joyner myself, but I am just trying to give another perspective. With that being said, I also would like to say to the writer, that you can find some pretty terrible slander and accusation against different people in the Body of Christ that is very detrimental. You can see the hate seeping from it which is so sad and detrimental to what Christ thinks about His Bride. I have not taken the time to really read the responses, but from what I read of the way you were explaining your argument, it wasn’t out of hatred just out of a spirit that wanted to let other people know some red flags you thought you saw. You did not come out pointing fingers and saying Rick Joyner is from the devil and I really appreciate that, I think the way that you handled conveying this information was very mature and thought-provoking. Thank you so much for your concern and your shepherds heart, that longs to bring people to the Truth, I pray that God would increase that in you. I pray He would bless you in your pursuit and bring others along side you that would love you and enhance rather than diminish your giftings. Thank you for your heart to lead people to the True Shepherd.

    Thanks and Blessings 🙂

    Adam Pettitt

  32. Mike Says:

    Thanks for the post. I especially thank you Holly for not being meanspirited and sarcastic in you critique (i.e., you actually seem to love Rick Joyner).
    I was deceived by this book and Mr. Joyners (and friends) teachings for many years. I thank God for those like yourself who issue warnings in love.
    Keep up the good work.
    Mike

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