Comments on: ‘Apostle’ Joyner Meets Apostle Paul http://www.SpiritOfError.org/2007/04/%e2%80%98apostle%e2%80%99-joyner-meets-apostle-paul/106 A biblical response to the modern prophets & apostles movement Fri, 05 Aug 2011 00:15:49 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8 hourly 1 By: Michael http://www.SpiritOfError.org/2007/04/%e2%80%98apostle%e2%80%99-joyner-meets-apostle-paul/106/comment-page-1#comment-14431 Michael Mon, 06 Jun 2011 17:54:04 +0000 http://spiritoferror.wordpress.com/2007/04/30/%e2%80%98apostle%e2%80%99-joyner-meets-apostle-paul/#comment-14431 i'm pretty much with holly on this. but i do have a question. what about jesus and peter meeting moses? moses was dead. i’m pretty much with holly on this. but i do have a question. what about jesus and peter meeting moses? moses was dead.

]]> By: ak http://www.SpiritOfError.org/2007/04/%e2%80%98apostle%e2%80%99-joyner-meets-apostle-paul/106/comment-page-1#comment-9320 ak Mon, 14 Mar 2011 04:03:47 +0000 http://spiritoferror.wordpress.com/2007/04/30/%e2%80%98apostle%e2%80%99-joyner-meets-apostle-paul/#comment-9320 Jesus spoke to the dead, Moses and Elijah. The Mount of transfiguration, Matthew 17:1-9. Jesus spoke to the dead, Moses and Elijah. The Mount of transfiguration, Matthew 17:1-9.

]]> By: Bubby wallace http://www.SpiritOfError.org/2007/04/%e2%80%98apostle%e2%80%99-joyner-meets-apostle-paul/106/comment-page-1#comment-1651 Bubby wallace Sun, 18 Apr 2010 02:09:57 +0000 http://spiritoferror.wordpress.com/2007/04/30/%e2%80%98apostle%e2%80%99-joyner-meets-apostle-paul/#comment-1651 I read the book 2 times, and i notice that rick says that at some point God would release all those that went to hell, yet the word of God is very clear that hell is everylasting torment. when i caught this i threw ricks book straight in the garbage and have warned everyone that his prophecy is false, and now it we be hard to believe anything that he might say, it scares me thats for sure! keep your eyes on heaven not on things on this earth the bible says. I read the book 2 times, and i notice that rick says that at some point God would release all those that went to hell, yet the word of God is very clear that hell is everylasting torment. when i caught this i threw ricks book straight in the garbage and have warned everyone that his prophecy is false, and now it we be hard to believe anything that he might say, it scares me thats for sure! keep your eyes on heaven not on things on this earth the bible says.

]]> By: Buronic http://www.SpiritOfError.org/2007/04/%e2%80%98apostle%e2%80%99-joyner-meets-apostle-paul/106/comment-page-1#comment-1423 Buronic Tue, 09 Feb 2010 04:55:59 +0000 http://spiritoferror.wordpress.com/2007/04/30/%e2%80%98apostle%e2%80%99-joyner-meets-apostle-paul/#comment-1423 I know this is two years later I however have some thing to add. just in case someone comes across this blog. the apostles saw Moses and Elijah talking to Jesus, they themselves did not talk with them. so not even once did a person who died and went to heaven  talk with someone alive on earth, its no where in the bible. because that would leave an open door for people to go to mediums to talk to dead relatives. and an open door for other ways to God other than Jesus Christ.   God is not stupid. I know this is two years later I however have some thing to add. just in case someone comes across this blog.
the apostles saw Moses and Elijah talking to Jesus, they themselves did not talk with them. so not even once did a person who died and went to heaven  talk with someone alive on earth, its no where in the bible. because that would leave an open door for people to go to mediums to talk to dead relatives. and an open door for other ways to God other than Jesus Christ.   God is not stupid.

]]> By: Richard http://www.SpiritOfError.org/2007/04/%e2%80%98apostle%e2%80%99-joyner-meets-apostle-paul/106/comment-page-1#comment-1074 Richard Wed, 17 Dec 2008 15:06:27 +0000 http://spiritoferror.wordpress.com/2007/04/30/%e2%80%98apostle%e2%80%99-joyner-meets-apostle-paul/#comment-1074 I read the quest when it just came out and it is erroneous,but the reasons you state of possible necromancy is extreme and comes across as unfair,How would you explain The lord Jesus Christ talking to Moses and Elijah. I read the quest when it just came out and it is erroneous,but the reasons you state of possible necromancy is extreme and comes across as unfair,How would you explain The lord Jesus Christ talking to Moses and Elijah.

]]> By: Riles http://www.SpiritOfError.org/2007/04/%e2%80%98apostle%e2%80%99-joyner-meets-apostle-paul/106/comment-page-1#comment-1057 Riles Fri, 17 Oct 2008 18:28:29 +0000 http://spiritoferror.wordpress.com/2007/04/30/%e2%80%98apostle%e2%80%99-joyner-meets-apostle-paul/#comment-1057 Pam, this i from Deuteronomy 34: 5 And Moses the servant of the LORD died there in Moab, as the LORD had said. 6 He buried him [b] in Moab, in the valley opposite Beth Peor, but to this day no one knows where his grave is. 7 Moses was a hundred and twenty years old when he died, yet his eyes were not weak nor his strength gone. 8 The Israelites grieved for Moses in the plains of Moab thirty days, until the time of weeping and mourning was over. I too read The Final Quest and found it to be more nonsense from one of the false apostles. Pam, this i from Deuteronomy 34:
5 And Moses the servant of the LORD died there in Moab, as the LORD had said. 6 He buried him [b] in Moab, in the valley opposite Beth Peor, but to this day no one knows where his grave is. 7 Moses was a hundred and twenty years old when he died, yet his eyes were not weak nor his strength gone. 8 The Israelites grieved for Moses in the plains of Moab thirty days, until the time of weeping and mourning was over.

I too read The Final Quest and found it to be more nonsense from one of the false apostles.

]]> By: pam http://www.SpiritOfError.org/2007/04/%e2%80%98apostle%e2%80%99-joyner-meets-apostle-paul/106/comment-page-1#comment-1054 pam Wed, 09 Apr 2008 20:43:45 +0000 http://spiritoferror.wordpress.com/2007/04/30/%e2%80%98apostle%e2%80%99-joyner-meets-apostle-paul/#comment-1054 Moses and Elijah were taken up to heaven they were not considered to have died. big difference between dying and being taken up to heaven. Moses and Elijah were taken up to heaven they were not considered to have died. big difference between dying and being taken up to heaven.

]]> By: Nicolle http://www.SpiritOfError.org/2007/04/%e2%80%98apostle%e2%80%99-joyner-meets-apostle-paul/106/comment-page-1#comment-1075 Nicolle Thu, 27 Dec 2007 08:51:48 +0000 http://spiritoferror.wordpress.com/2007/04/30/%e2%80%98apostle%e2%80%99-joyner-meets-apostle-paul/#comment-1075 Amen! there are too many Joyners here...people who add or take away from the bible. the bible doesn't contradict itself. it is us who contradict. true apostolics believe in Acts 2:38(and peter said repent and be baptised in the name of jesus christ for the remission of sins and you shall recieve the gift of the holy ghost). people take away for the benefit of themselves, simply because they don't want to follow what the bible says. Amen! there are too many Joyners here…people who add or take away from the bible. the bible doesn’t contradict itself. it is us who contradict. true apostolics believe in Acts 2:38(and peter said repent and be baptised in the name of jesus christ for the remission of sins and you shall recieve the gift of the holy ghost). people take away for the benefit of themselves, simply because they don’t want to follow what the bible says.

]]> By: Robert Brownell http://www.SpiritOfError.org/2007/04/%e2%80%98apostle%e2%80%99-joyner-meets-apostle-paul/106/comment-page-1#comment-1071 Robert Brownell Sun, 05 Aug 2007 10:06:07 +0000 http://spiritoferror.wordpress.com/2007/04/30/%e2%80%98apostle%e2%80%99-joyner-meets-apostle-paul/#comment-1071 I read the Final Quest several times and can speak about it with good authroity, I have to say that the artical "Apostle’ Joyner Meets Apostle Paul" is very poor in its analysis, I feel that the author barly even read the book, maybe just skimmed it to find some negative things. Many of his critiques in this article again Joyner, can be disproved if he would have just turned a few pages over. This critique is a Joke, the authro needs to read the book without the intention to slander. You can read the book and hear the MP3 at Spiritlessons,com I read the Final Quest several times and can speak about it with good authroity, I have to say that the artical “Apostle’ Joyner Meets Apostle Paul” is very poor in its analysis, I feel that the author barly even read the book, maybe just skimmed it to find some negative things. Many of his critiques in this article again Joyner, can be disproved if he would have just turned a few pages over. This critique is a Joke, the authro needs to read the book without the intention to slander. You can read the book and hear the MP3 at Spiritlessons,com

]]> By: rahabsplace http://www.SpiritOfError.org/2007/04/%e2%80%98apostle%e2%80%99-joyner-meets-apostle-paul/106/comment-page-1#comment-1072 rahabsplace Fri, 03 Aug 2007 06:45:43 +0000 http://spiritoferror.wordpress.com/2007/04/30/%e2%80%98apostle%e2%80%99-joyner-meets-apostle-paul/#comment-1072 Let's look at some of this. Red Flag Number 1 The reference comes from Philippians 3:12 where Paul says that at that point in his life, which was 3 years before his death, he had not apprehended that which Christ had apprehended him for. Why is it hard to believe that Paul was given such an outstanding revelation of the Lord and His purposes for Paul that Paul just might not have been able to do it all? In Timothy Paul says that he had finished the course and knew that it was his time to depart. He had done all he would be able to do. I think that most of us will find that we didn't get it all because scripture clearly teaches that as long as we are in this life, we only see in part. We see through a glass darkly. Paul is just one of us. He was no different than any Christian alive today. Red Flag #2 Paul clearly says I AM THE CHIEF OF SINNERS in Timothy, not I was. The Greek behind this is very clear. It is a present tense statement. The point here is that the closer you grow to the Lord, the more clearly you see your sin and your need for grace. There is nothing twisting about this statement from Joyner. The longer Paul served the Lord, the more clearly he understood the grace that he walked in. He clearly understood that all our righteousness is as filthy rags and that there is no one righteous. His statement is a beautiful declaration of his dependence on the grace of God to sustain him. Red Flag #3 I don't have the book in front of me, so I cannot track his progression, but I thought he pulled the allusion to being equal to the greatest apostle out of Galatians, not 2 Corinthians. Galatians was the first epistle written according to many scholars. Again, why do you have a problem with the fact that Paul had to grow like the rest of us to? He didn't come out of his blindness a fully mature Christian. Red Flag #4 Paul clearly says that he built on the chief cornerstone which was Jesus and that no other foundation other than Christ could be laid. Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith. Paul's epistles dealt mostly with problems in the churches he oversaw and had relationship with. He did say that his judgment was his and not the Lord's on occasion. Paul also was seeking to help the church find its way in a specific culture that no longer exists. Not everything that Paul taught was timeless truth the way the Gospels are. Red Flag #5 If you had a chance to talk to Paul, wouldn't you be like, "What did you mean by this?" or "Was this timeless or were you dealing with a specific situation?" And "What really happened when you got out of prison the first time?" I know I would. But to receive those answers in a vision would be adding to scripture and the Lord doesn't tend to do that, now does He? I don't think Rick was implying that his writing are anywhere near scripture. If you read the next book, The Call, he crashes and burns rather spectacularly in this vision and winds up under judgment. The things that I took way from this book that really made an impact on me is that if you do not anchor yourself in the word of God, you can fall from any level in this life. Another thing was that the biblical authors are just guys like the rest of us who had an extraordinary encounter with a supernatural God. Paul was not better than any Christian alive today. Neither was Peter, James or John. Peter was just as capable of missing the mark after the Lord's resurrection as he was before. What that means is that they were not a separate class of Christian than us, but they were normal Christians that we need to be like. The epistles are elaborating on what Jesus taught. The words of Jesus always trump anything written by the apostles. What Jesus said and did is our pattern. Paul said follow me AS I FOLLOW CHRIST. Jesus is the pattern, not Paul Oh, and just for good measure, if Joyner is guilty of necromancy, then so is Jesus. Moses was quite dead when he appeared to Jesus, Peter, James and John. You can argue it was okay for Jesus, but for Peter, James and John it would have been forbidden. One of the keys to necromancy is that you initiate the contact. If the Lord gives you the vision, then it isn't necromancy. Let’s look at some of this.

Red Flag Number 1
The reference comes from Philippians 3:12 where Paul says that at that point in his life, which was 3 years before his death, he had not apprehended that which Christ had apprehended him for. Why is it hard to believe that Paul was given such an outstanding revelation of the Lord and His purposes for Paul that Paul just might not have been able to do it all? In Timothy Paul says that he had finished the course and knew that it was his time to depart. He had done all he would be able to do. I think that most of us will find that we didn’t get it all because scripture clearly teaches that as long as we are in this life, we only see in part. We see through a glass darkly. Paul is just one of us. He was no different than any Christian alive today.

Red Flag #2
Paul clearly says I AM THE CHIEF OF SINNERS in Timothy, not I was. The Greek behind this is very clear. It is a present tense statement.

The point here is that the closer you grow to the Lord, the more clearly you see your sin and your need for grace. There is nothing twisting about this statement from Joyner. The longer Paul served the Lord, the more clearly he understood the grace that he walked in. He clearly understood that all our righteousness is as filthy rags and that there is no one righteous. His statement is a beautiful declaration of his dependence on the grace of God to sustain him.

Red Flag #3
I don’t have the book in front of me, so I cannot track his progression, but I thought he pulled the allusion to being equal to the greatest apostle out of Galatians, not 2 Corinthians. Galatians was the first epistle written according to many scholars.

Again, why do you have a problem with the fact that Paul had to grow like the rest of us to? He didn’t come out of his blindness a fully mature Christian.

Red Flag #4
Paul clearly says that he built on the chief cornerstone which was Jesus and that no other foundation other than Christ could be laid. Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith.

Paul’s epistles dealt mostly with problems in the churches he oversaw and had relationship with. He did say that his judgment was his and not the Lord’s on occasion. Paul also was seeking to help the church find its way in a specific culture that no longer exists. Not everything that Paul taught was timeless truth the way the Gospels are.

Red Flag #5
If you had a chance to talk to Paul, wouldn’t you be like, “What did you mean by this?” or “Was this timeless or were you dealing with a specific situation?” And “What really happened when you got out of prison the first time?” I know I would. But to receive those answers in a vision would be adding to scripture and the Lord doesn’t tend to do that, now does He?

I don’t think Rick was implying that his writing are anywhere near scripture. If you read the next book, The Call, he crashes and burns rather spectacularly in this vision and winds up under judgment.

The things that I took way from this book that really made an impact on me is that if you do not anchor yourself in the word of God, you can fall from any level in this life.

Another thing was that the biblical authors are just guys like the rest of us who had an extraordinary encounter with a supernatural God. Paul was not better than any Christian alive today. Neither was Peter, James or John. Peter was just as capable of missing the mark after the Lord’s resurrection as he was before. What that means is that they were not a separate class of Christian than us, but they were normal Christians that we need to be like.

The epistles are elaborating on what Jesus taught. The words of Jesus always trump anything written by the apostles. What Jesus said and did is our pattern. Paul said follow me AS I FOLLOW CHRIST. Jesus is the pattern, not Paul

Oh, and just for good measure, if Joyner is guilty of necromancy, then so is Jesus. Moses was quite dead when he appeared to Jesus, Peter, James and John. You can argue it was okay for Jesus, but for Peter, James and John it would have been forbidden. One of the keys to necromancy is that you initiate the contact. If the Lord gives you the vision, then it isn’t necromancy.

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